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By Joris Evers
Posted on ZDNet News: Sep 18, 2006 11:00:00 AM

Windows Vista hasn't shipped yet, but Microsoft and the European Union are already caught up in a tussle over the antitrust impact of security technology in the operating system.

Microsoft wants the 25-nation bloc to set clear boundaries as to what it can and can't do. By asking European regulators for guidelines now, Microsoft hopes to avoid an antitrust battle after Vista ships, where it might be forced to pull features out of the operating system. However, the EU has only provided a more general picture of the landscape.

Last month, Microsoft Chief Executive Officer Steve Ballmer met with EU Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes. The visit came after the software giant received a list of 79 questions related to Vista from the European Commission, the EU's executive body. Despite this list, Microsoft feels it is driving blind.

"We still have not received the guidance we're seeking," Jack Evans, a Microsoft spokesman, said Thursday. "In July, we received a formal list of questions, but no answers about what specific concerns the Commission has, or how we should address them. We need answers, not questions."

But as far as the Commission is concerned, it is not the regulators' responsibility to vet Vista before it ships. Rather, it is Microsoft's responsibility as a "near monopolist" to abide by EU competition rules--in particular, those that prohibit abuse of a dominant market position, Commission spokesman Jonathan Todd said Friday.

"The Commission is ready to give guidance to Microsoft and has done so so many times, but it is not up to the Commission to give Microsoft a definitive green light before Vista is put on the market," Todd said. This is also the message Kroes gave "very clearly" to Ballmer when the two met on Aug. 22, he added.

The main rule for Microsoft is to ensure that the market allows competition between security providers on the merits of their products, Todd said. "If business and home users are deprived of choice, a security 'monoculture' based on Microsoft products may lead to less innovation and could harm all computer users. Security risks could increase, and not decrease," he said.

What's the fuss about?

The European Union won't publicly specify what parts of Vista it doesn't like, but Microsoft has highlighted some areas where it sees "confusion."

PatchGuard
Feature in 64-bit version of Vista that locks down the kernel. Security companies say they're being locked out and need kernel access for their products to secure systems.
BitLocker
Feature included in Vista Business and Ultimate that lets people encrypt all the data on their hard drive. Other businesses sell encryption software.
Windows Defender
Anti-spyware tool that is part of all versions of Vista. Third-party products offer similar functionality. Until recently, Defender could not be disabled by those products.
Windows Security Center
Feature in Vista that gives a "neutral" view of the status of security software, Microsoft says. Other players aren't so sure about that neutrality, since Microsoft competes with them.

Source: Microsoft

Microsoft, with its $34 billion war chest, is now a player in the antivirus market. It launched Windows Live OneCare for consumers and is readying enterprise security products under its new Forefront brand. With its huge presence on desktops, the software giant has a built-in advantage--one that is making some security companies nervous.

Earlier this month, Microsoft suggested that the European launch of the already oft-delayed Vista could be pushed back as the result of a lack of direction from the Commission. Last week, however, the company said the European launch is on track. Vista is expected to be released to computer makers in November and is slated to be broadly available in January.

European dispute
Microsoft and the Commission have been at loggerheads for years over antitrust. Two months ago, European regulators slapped the Redmond, Wash.-based company with a $357 million fine for noncompliance with a 2004 antitrust ruling, which Microsoft is still appealing.

The argument over Vista is only the next stage in that discussion, Roger Kay, an analyst at Endpoint Technologies Associates, wrote in a research note published Friday. "This argument is an extension of a longtime dispute that essentially has no real solution," he wrote.

In the landmark 2004 European ruling Microsoft was faulted for abusing its market position by shipping its own media player software with Windows, giving it a huge market share in one go. In Vista, security software and features have emerged as the hottest point of contention among a number of concerns.

"The Commission has monitored and discussed with Microsoft several aspects of Vista, including Microsoft's integration of security software into Vista," Todd said.

Microsoft is worried that the European regulators might require it to strip some security features out of Vista. "The bottom line is that we want to launch Vista in a fully lawful manner, and we want to avoid regulatory decisions that could increase security risks for European consumers," Evans said.

The Commission does not intend to prevent Microsoft from improving the security of its products in general and Vista in particular, Todd said. It will not require Microsoft to ship products without security software, he said. "Improving the security of Microsoft products is a welcome development and not one to which the Commission has ever objected," he added.

Vista will include anti-spyware software called "Windows Defender" and a new Windows Security Center that tells people the status of the protection on their PC. Companies such as Symantec and McAfee also sell their own alternatives to both technologies.

Symantec and some of Microsoft's other security rivals have publicly complained about other aspects of Vista--specifically, a feature called "PatchGuard" that Microsoft says is designed to guard core parts of the 64-bit version of the operating system against attacks. However, the technology also locks out helpful software from security rivals, the critics have claimed.

The Commission has requested comments from security providers, including Symantec, about the new Windows operating system.

"We have responded to inquiries from the Commission," Symantec spokesman Cris Paden said. The questions covered the security industry overall, he said, declining to be more specific. The European body has asked for information several times since June last year--most recently, in July, he said.

European tour
Microsoft sent its security chief on a European tour last week. Ben Fathi, a vice president in Microsoft's Security Technology Unit, presented the security features in Vista to journalists, analysts and government officials, the company said. Fathi did not, however, meet with EU competition authorities, it said.

Fathi's presentation included several slides on PatchGuard, BitLocker, Windows Security Center and Windows Defender--the same technologies that concern Microsoft's competition and that the EU is believed to be looking at.

"These are four different technologies that we feel there is confusion about, even amongst our customers," Stephen Toulouse, a Microsoft Security Response program manager, said. "They raise the baseline of security for the operating system."

One recent change to Vista made in response to industry requests is the ability for third-party products to turn off Windows Defender, rather than requiring the user to do it, Toulouse said. Prior to Release Candidate 1 of the operating system, delivered early this month, there was no way to automatically disable the Microsoft anti-spyware tool when installing a competing product.

This had been a sticking point with some of Microsoft's rivals, including Symantec. "Up until recently, Microsoft had refused to give us an interface to disable Defender," said Bruce McCorkendale, a chief engineer at Symantec.

The Commission's position is that computer security depends on variety and innovation in security software, Todd said.

"Microsoft's design of the security features in Vista should not put this diversity and innovation at risk. This might occur if reputable third-party security vendors, which have proven experience in addressing security problems, are prevented from competing on an equal footing," he said.

The back-and-forth between Microsoft and the Commission may yet lead to a delay of Vista, Kay predicts. "We come down to the wire on the Vista launch," he wrote. "The sides are not too far apart, but a gap, sufficiently large to cause a potential delay in the European launch, still exists."

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Vista
Why doesnt MS just secure any updates or patches to valid key only updates/upgrades. And stop the nonsense.... (Read the rest)
Posted by: ssagracie@adelphia.net Posted on: 10/13/06 You are currently: Logged In as: a Guest  | Login | Terms of Use
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I Can Kinda Sorta Almost Agree with MS on This One  BanjoPaterson | 09/18/06
An OS should be secure, but virus scanning software in no way needs to be  DonnieBoy | 09/18/06
PLEASE go buy a CLUE  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
Users being secure is a good thing, and we should have vibrant competition  DonnieBoy | 09/18/06
Then let them COMPETE  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
You can not compete against a bundled product. Why would consumers pay  DonnieBoy | 09/18/06
Wouldnt the same thing happen  Suicida| | 09/18/06
Eliminating security holes in the OS is not a problem, bundling IS.  DonnieBoy | 09/18/06
And if you read the story No_Axe you would know by now  Intellihence | 09/18/06
Locking the kernel is the core of security  osreinstall | 09/18/06
If there is no AV in Vista...  nomorems | 09/18/06
Re; Morons  handydan918 | 09/18/06
I have to agree...strongly...  el1jones | 09/18/06
Same old story.  pkrdk | 09/18/06
I don't know why...  zkiwi | 09/18/06
It is not up to the commision to do Microsofts homework. Playing stupid  DonnieBoy | 09/18/06
Message has been deleted.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
Microsoft is the one playing stupid. Multibillion dollar companies do NOT  DonnieBoy | 09/18/06
Bullsh*t !!!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
The EU does NOT have the resource to analyze every product on the market.  DonnieBoy | 09/18/06
More B*LLSH*T  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
And the EU did NOT want to, they would rather that conpanies would just  DonnieBoy | 09/18/06
They sure do  BFD | 09/18/06
The EU only analyzes a very small number of products, some in great detail  DonnieBoy | 09/18/06
But aren't they analyzing MS right now  Boot_Agnostic | 09/20/06
You want to hear STUPID  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
may be you're  Swiss27 | 09/18/06
Thats the whole problem .  Intellihence | 09/18/06
That is EXACTLY what they are doing.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
EU resources  monkeynuts | 09/18/06
We READ stupid...  Spikey_Mike | 09/18/06
Any law that says you can't secure your code  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
No_Ax, there's a difference between...  Zeppo9191 | 09/18/06
Do you even know the difference between code and binary?  B.O.F.H. | 09/18/06
Well, seeing as you are  zkiwi | 09/18/06
You, Don, are the stupid one.  nomorems | 09/18/06
Good gawd, can you read?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
Sur I can read No AX  tfahs_orcim | 09/18/06
You want stupid? keep reading No_AX posts  tfahs_orcim | 09/18/06
WHAT!!!!!!?  monkeynuts | 09/18/06
Eat your own dog food  zkiwi | 09/18/06
I'd have to disagree...  TechinMN | 09/18/06
Which would you rather have?  zkiwi | 09/18/06
Sure,  pkrdk | 09/18/06
Read competition read C.A.P.  monkeynuts | 09/18/06
I agree!  Linux Geek | 09/18/06
Total BS  BFD | 09/18/06
More Microsoft word games.  nomorems | 09/18/06
Where are the lines drawn  rdhalsteatzd | 09/18/06
In violation there and should be in US  hoozafrizitz | 09/18/06
That is subtle  Spikey_Mike | 09/18/06
how is YOUR OS migration is progressing?  monkeynuts | 09/18/06
No SPEEDING on the highway ...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
The laws are quite clear on competition in Europe. MS is playing stupid  DonnieBoy | 09/18/06
No they are NOT clear in any way.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
This is very clear .  Intellihence | 09/18/06
Bitty's Sweating Bullets  itanalyst | 09/18/06
Comply with WHAT???  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
Thankfully, Microsoft does not have to rely on you for the answer.  nomorems | 09/19/06
No they are NOT clear in any way.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
And this just goes to show...  zkiwi | 09/18/06
Why would MS want to follow  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
Windows - unsecure by desing.  pkrdk | 09/18/06
The EU are NOT  zkiwi | 09/18/06
Microsoft word games.  nomorems | 09/18/06
Seeing Vista from this side of Atlantic  ohansky | 09/18/06
No they are NOT clear in any way.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
More logic .  Intellihence | 09/18/06
That's why they are not telling them the speed limit.  osreinstall | 09/18/06
Well if thats the case then Microsoft should pull out of Europe .  Intellihence | 09/18/06
They might if it costs money to operate there.  osreinstall | 09/18/06
Nope, they should just sell XP in Europe  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
Europe is one of the top 10 markets for software.  B.O.F.H. | 09/18/06
Explain  pkrdk | 09/18/06
I agree!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
No, the EU just dislikes the LARGEST aspect about Microsoft.  Zeppo9191 | 09/18/06
You can't tell me  DemonX | 09/18/06
Yup. And to make matters worse,  nomorems | 09/18/06
Don, you are a NUT.  nomorems | 09/18/06
Message has been deleted.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
Message has been deleted.  B.O.F.H. | 09/18/06
Ha ha...  nomorems | 09/19/06
If it's so clear then explain it to me  voska | 09/18/06
Get a high level position in Microsoft and then you will know.  nomorems | 09/19/06
No speeding  albert@... | 09/18/06
MS Asking EU is Foolish  Regulator1956 | 09/18/06
Perhaps because the US DOJ  Confused by religion | 09/18/06
If they had a clue...  Spikey_Mike | 09/18/06
It's more that the DoJ...  zkiwi | 09/18/06
And just where is the DOJ on Vista?  Spikey_Mike | 09/18/06
The DoJ is on the Microsoft premises...  Anton Philidor | 09/18/06
The new MS talking point?  Robert Crocker | 09/18/06
Who wants to see a MUG shot of Bill Gates ?  Intellihence | 09/18/06
Nice one!  patrick@... | 09/18/06
It's time to hang Bill Gates from the highest tree  BeGoneFool | 09/18/06
EU Apologist loser  BFD | 09/18/06
Whats the BFD?  nomorems | 09/18/06
Since when has any other O/S been secure?  LordNyghthawk@... | 09/19/06
You first.  John E Wahd | 09/19/06
Do it this way. NO! Do it that way!  Shelendrea | 09/18/06
Take it OUT! No, no, put it back.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
You know, Shel, I usually agree with you, but not this time.  Zeppo9191 | 09/18/06
free legal counsel  albert@... | 09/18/06
You're right, but...  Zeppo9191 | 09/18/06
Where you concept falls apart.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
Antitrust does not involve courts!  B.O.F.H. | 09/18/06
Message has been deleted.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
There's still a court system involved in the process.  Zeppo9191 | 09/18/06
Message has been deleted.  B.O.F.H. | 09/18/06
Ha ha...  nomorems | 09/19/06
California provides specifications...  Anton Philidor | 09/18/06
Ahh, but...  Zeppo9191 | 09/18/06
Suppose California had said:  Anton Philidor | 09/18/06
Then it's the lawyers' jobs...  Zeppo9191 | 09/18/06
Microsoft wants specifics.  Anton Philidor | 09/19/06
Microsoft wants someone else to do their job.  nomorems | 09/19/06
Lawyer can only work with they are given  voska | 09/18/06
...and both of those can be argued in court.  Zeppo9191 | 09/18/06
They are trying to avoid court  voska | 09/19/06
Report Antitrust concerns here:  Spikey_Mike | 09/18/06
Some of the posters here need to read up on the laws!  B.O.F.H. | 09/18/06
Fer Gawd's sake!  Confused by religion | 09/18/06
good point Milly..but...  Monkey_MCSE | 09/18/06
So does this mean...  Confused by religion | 09/18/06
nope, simply stating one thing...  Monkey_MCSE | 09/18/06
Your pointless point...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
That's not even the issue  voska | 09/18/06
Voska, i agree..  Monkey_MCSE | 09/18/06
According to the poster it IS THE ISSUE  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
Monkey, so what you are saying  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
RE:The difference here is the US is not calling it anti-trust to protect th  Monkey_MCSE | 09/18/06
Some markets go obsolete  voska | 09/18/06
Monkey, so you mean...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
I guess we have to agree to disagree  Confused by religion | 09/18/06
Message has been deleted.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
since you can't figure out common sense..  Monkey_MCSE | 09/18/06
Message has been deleted.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
Do you have any critical thinking skills?  Monkey_MCSE | 09/18/06
Do you? You seem to whine from both sides of your mouth.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
Nice try, but you're reading only what you want to see..  Monkey_MCSE | 09/18/06
Because you present nothing to see.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
What's Your Point  ProfKing | 09/18/06
Ha ha...  nomorems | 09/19/06
EC's usual approach  Anton Philidor | 09/18/06
From a citizen of the EU...  beneaton4 | 09/18/06
Agree for the most part  Boot_Agnostic | 09/18/06
Linux  beneaton4 | 09/18/06
WOW  Shelendrea | 09/18/06
beneaton4, you are so full of it.  nomorems | 09/18/06
Hehe  beneaton4 | 09/18/06
I'm a member of our Conservative Party  IronCladChicken | 09/19/06
Sniggers....  beneaton4 | 09/19/06
Thank you for an OUTSTANDING post.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
You do not seem to realize that ...  OButterball | 09/18/06
Oh good grief, even the EU doesn't want  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
Tsk, tsk. Gittin' a lil testy, ain't we, Axey?  OButterball | 09/18/06
Yeah, dealing with morons is frustrating.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/18/06
We never said it...  Monkey_MCSE | 09/18/06
Chuckle. And anyone saying the EC is ...  OButterball | 09/18/06
As I pointed out....  beneaton4 | 09/18/06