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By Joris Evers
Posted on ZDNet News: Sep 19, 2006 8:07:00 PM

Microsoft and its security rivals are feuding over a key piece of Windows Vista real estate.

The fight is over the display of technology that helps Vista owners manage the security tools on their PC. Symantec, McAfee, Check Point Software Technologies and other companies want Microsoft to change Vista so their products can easily replace the operating system's built-in Windows Security Center on the desktop. But Microsoft is resisting the call.

"By imposing the Windows Security Center on all Windows users, Microsoft is defining a template through which everybody looks at security," Bruce McCorkendale, a chief engineer at Symantec, said in an interview. "How do we trust that Microsoft knows what all the important things about security are to warn users about?"

Windows Security Center, introduced with Windows XP Service Pack 2, pops up on desktops to alert PC owners if their firewall, virus protection and other security tools need attention. The version in the Vista update, set for broad release in January, will add new categories and management tools.

It is possible to run third-party security consoles in Vista, said Stephen Toulouse, a program manager in Microsoft's Security Technology Unit. However, people have to manually disable the Windows Security Center if they don't want to use it. And the software giant has no plans to give other companies the ability to turn off the Windows Security Center, Toulouse noted.

"Our main concern is to provide customers with a fall-back option if there is no other security center running," he said.

If the differences aren't worked out, it could spell annoyance for consumers, the rival security companies say. People who choose to use Microsoft's console alone will get a limited view of their Vista PC protection, they suggest. Those who buy competing software will have to run it alongside Microsoft's dashboard, which could report conflicting information. Rivals have charged that the Redmond, Wash.-based software giant is hurting consumers, raising the specter of more antitrust complaints for Microsoft.

"Microsoft's Windows Security Center demonstrates fairly limited sophistication, and having (it) control the console could take away the consumer's visibility into the threats he faces," said Siobhan MacDermott, a spokeswoman for McAfee. "Ultimately, it's something the consumer should decide, not Microsoft."

Jostling for position
Tensions are flying high in the security space after Microsoft, with its $34 billion war chest, entered the market. It launched Windows Live OneCare for consumers and is readying enterprise security products. With its huge presence on desktops, the software giant has a built-in advantage--one that is making other security companies nervous. European antitrust regulators are closely watching Microsoft.

Security companies have already fought several battles over Vista similar to the one about Windows Security Center. Some they won. Most recently, Microsoft added the ability for third-party products to turn off Windows Defender spyware protection in Vista, rather than requiring the PC user to do it. Earlier, it provided the same functionality for the Windows Firewall. In both cases, Microsoft has asked security companies to re-enable the Windows defenses if their products are removed from a PC.

Security centers

A dispute still exists over "PatchGuard," a security feature that Microsoft says is designed to guard core parts of the 64-bit version of Vista, but which critics say locks out helpful software from security rivals.

And then there is Windows Security Center, which sits in the Windows Control Panel and pops up any time there is a security alert, such as when antivirus protection is disabled or the firewall is turned off. Microsoft is beefing up the console in the successor to XP, and refers to it as the "voice of security for Windows Vista."

In Vista, the security dashboard will add reports on spyware protection, Internet security settings, and Windows security technology called "User Account Control."

Another change in Vista is that Windows Security Center will be used to manage the security software, in addition to reporting on it. For example, a PC user could update antivirus definitions or disable a firewall directly from the Windows Security Center, according to a recently published Microsoft document on the feature.

This could give rivals the opportunity to change tack and focus on developing products that plug into Microsoft's security dashboard, rather than continuing to produce their own, Toulouse suggested. "They might not need to have their own security center anymore," he said. "It is our hope that they build products that connect into Windows Security Center."

Microsoft agreed that multiple security consoles on a single PC could confuse users, especially different information is displayed, but said that this is an argument in favor of funneling all security software management via the Windows Security Center.

"It is a fundamental lack of clarity for the user," Toulouse said. Microsoft's dashboard is "neutral" and "vendor agnostic," Toulouse added.

But Symantec and Check Point chuckle at the notion that Microsoft is neutral. For example, both companies doubt it is a coincidence that the company added an anti-spyware category to the Windows Security Center only after it introduced Windows Defender, an anti-spyware tool that will ship as part of Vista.

"Who is Microsoft to define the right way to think about security?" asked Laura Yecies, general manager of Check Point's ZoneAlarm division. "Microsoft does not have the track record or expertise in this space. They have not earned it."

Best view
McCorkendale said Symantec's own security center will give its customers the best view of the status of Symantec products, so people should have the option to use the Symantec dashboard instead of Microsoft's. "Customers should be allowed to choose their security product suites and therefore the security console to go with them," he said.

Symantec's console is called the "Norton Protection Center," and Check Point has a management console in ZoneAlarm Internet Security Suite. McAfee, one of the top players in the consumer security space, also has a security console. Trend Micro and CA declined to comment.

Competing consoles

Microsoft's Windows Security Center will appear in the Vista update. Here's a list of rival technology, which ships in the maker's security suite product.

McAfee: McAfee SecurityCenter

Symantec: Norton Protection Center

Check Point: ZoneLabs' ZoneAlarm Security Suite management console

Trend Micro: PC-cillin Internet Security console

Michael Cherry, an analyst at Directions on Microsoft, also questioned the software maker's neutrality when it comes to Windows Security Center, wondering whether Microsoft's developers would respond quicker to a request from the OneCare team then to Symantec's Norton AntiVirus team.

"I am not comfortable yet that that information is being shared equally and that all partners are equal partners," Cherry said. "It is only neutral when they can prove that OneCare, or Windows Firewall, or Windows Defender does not get a more favorable review or a more favorable access to technology."

There is something to be said for a central point in Windows that has security information, Cherry added. But if a user picks a third-party security suite, that product should be able to turn off Windows Security Center, he said.

"If I choose to use a third party's tools, then I would want to use a security center from them. So I'd be much more comfortable if Microsoft's could be uninstalled in favor of the one I want to use," he said.

Restricted Vista?
Symantec, Check Point and McAfee also argued that Microsoft's Windows Security Center risks giving consumers a limited view of security.

"If we were to just cede the dashboard console view of security to Microsoft, we could only talk to users about firewalls, antivirus and anti-spyware," Symantec's McCorkendale said

Check Point's Yecies said that Microsoft's console looks at security with blinders that are surprisingly convenient to its own product lineup.

"The modules, as Microsoft has currently defined them, are incomplete in an environment of zero-day exploits," she said. "Setting up those terms really limits the view consumers have about what is possible and potentially what they need. It might lead a consumer to think that they are fully protected, when in fact they are far from it."

But Natalie Lambert, an analyst at Forrester Research, argued that Microsoft is helping PC users. "The Windows Security Center is helpful, it really does provide a quick view into security," she said. "Consumers need to have security handed to them on a silver platter."

Vista is the first major update to Windows since Microsoft shipped XP in 2001. Back then, Microsoft was not a player in the security arena, and things went much smoother, McCorkendale said

"It is really hard work and we have had to be very, very persistent and over a very long period of time, which is different from how we used to work with Microsoft before they got into the security space. They have really changed the rules of the game; we used to have a lot more pleasant dialogue," he said.

Ultimately, Symantec hopes all the differences can be resolved nicely, McCorkendale said.

"All our concerns are about consumer choice. Consumer should be allowed to choose their security solution and if they are not allowed to make that choice…you risk a monoculture in security, which reduces innovation and diversity."

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norton software
Hi Folks

Norton: Without prejudice

Major Grips which, will mean that we will not be investing in Semantic products for any of our PCs and NL edit suites next year.

1) It crashes t... (Read the rest)
Posted by: rick.cresswell Posted on: 11/03/06 You are currently: Logged In as: a Guest  | Login | Terms of Use
We need robust and vibrant competition in the security area to have  DonnieBoy | 09/19/06
We've had "vibrant competition" for years...  jinko | 09/19/06
So is the solution to remove competition??? If somebody can make it work  DonnieBoy | 09/19/06
No, they can still compete...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
Wow, great, we have to read TWO different bulitins for every security risk,  DonnieBoy | 09/19/06
What "WE" DonnieBoy  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
Try and at least get a clue before you post.  ShadeTree | 09/20/06
I smell another Lawsuit In The Making , I smell another Lawsuit Brewing .  Intellihence | 09/20/06
The only thing you smell ...  ShadeTree | 09/20/06
Just like IE.  nomorems | 09/19/06
Gee, and here I had FireFox as my default browser.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
Gee, and if I want to buy Windows with just one browser of my choice??  DonnieBoy | 09/19/06
Thjen buy something else... Have you ever heard  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
What nonsense ...  chekmarx | 09/20/06
McAffe & Symantec?  Mr Roboto | 09/20/06
What in the world are you going on about?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
Of course, Don.  nomorems | 09/19/06
Clue for you...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
Virus scanning and protection has been a separate product for years.  DonnieBoy | 09/19/06
Ranting uselessly I see. tsk tsk...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
GM and Ford do not have monopolies, so this does not apply to them.  DonnieBoy | 09/19/06
And it still is!  ShadeTree | 09/20/06
Just Stupid  warped1 | 09/20/06
MS should work it out that the responsibility is on the 3rd parties  Boot_Agnostic | 09/19/06
Question about that...  nix_hed | 09/20/06
It should be obvious that it ain't just Neelie Kroes that smells a rat here  DonnieBoy | 09/19/06
Nothing at all...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
I will tust the market to decide what the best security product is. To do  DonnieBoy | 09/19/06
Donnieboy, STOP LYING!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
Everybody suffers from the security flaws in Windows. They use zombie  DonnieBoy | 09/19/06
So your saying Symantech's (and others)  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
Well, if they did suck, Microsft would be able to compete straight up on  DonnieBoy | 09/19/06
No-Ax I smell another lawsuit brewing .  Intellihence | 09/20/06
Microsoft does not care a whit about the consumer.  nomorems | 09/19/06
Say it a million times...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
And you can tell us a million times we will be safe with Microsoft.  DonnieBoy | 09/19/06
Again, what "WE"?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
We = anybody with an IQ in double figures. And, zombie Windows computers  DonnieBoy | 09/20/06
This we of yours is disingenuous.  osreinstall | 09/19/06
OneCare is not bundled  A.Sinic | 09/20/06
Wouldn't it be nice...  opensourcepro | 09/19/06
Real competition is  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
Too bad Microsoft does not compete and relies on their desktop OS monopoly.  nomorems | 09/19/06
Waaaaa, sorry you are wrong.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
Boy, No_Ax, you are pathetic.  nomorems | 09/19/06
Here we go again....  HiTowerUK | 09/20/06
Car analogies don't work..  Patrick Jones | 09/20/06
That sort of thinking sound good ...  phburks | 09/20/06
I wonder if Microsoft will tie this deeply to the OS ?  I'm Ye, the MS SHILL . | 09/20/06
You're simply wrong...  jcg_z | 09/20/06
Simply put ...  phburks | 09/20/06
Oh give me a break!  voska | 09/20/06
re: Oh give me a break!  chekmarx | 09/20/06
Thats because dial-up networking is MS code  osreinstall | 09/20/06
re: Thats because dial-up networking is MS code  chekmarx | 09/20/06
You are the one not too bright.  osreinstall | 09/20/06
Hmmm, now let me see, who's OS is it?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
Kindergarten Time in Axeyland ... again.  OButterball | 09/19/06
The EC???  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
Oh, yes, Axey, definitely a THICK layer of skin ...  OButterball | 09/19/06
Pay attention...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
That's a big wish  voska | 09/20/06
Ooooo, yes, those magic words:  OButterball | 09/20/06
Tread lightly No Ax  tic swayback | 09/19/06
Hey, that's called business.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
ROFL  Suicida| | 09/19/06
Sad  tic swayback | 09/20/06
I don't know if this is really an issue  voska | 09/20/06
Quality vs. convenience  tic swayback | 09/20/06
Great point now, but could this change...  bayny | 09/20/06
I worry though  tic swayback | 09/20/06
Just what product are they adding to Vista ...  ShadeTree | 09/20/06
As I understand it...  tic swayback | 09/20/06
OS Product; or OS  mighetto | 09/19/06
Really. I saw no mention  John Zern | 09/20/06
Oh, I don't know  rapson | 09/20/06
Well...  zkiwi | 09/20/06
Isn't the customer the focus?  Pinkerton | 09/20/06
The 'Customer is NOT the focus' !  woodwardt@... | 09/20/06
That can be turned off  osreinstall | 09/20/06
It's a pain  Pinkerton | 09/20/06
No it isn't  osreinstall | 09/20/06
New Features Should Work, Period  Pinkerton | 09/21/06
Don't worry about it  osreinstall | 09/21/06
Scare-mongering...  jinko | 09/19/06
Where were the complaints about XPSP2?  PB_z | 09/19/06
Because Microsoft now has onecare  georgeou | 09/19/06
Microsoft shills only care about Microsoft profits.  nomorems | 09/19/06
And ranting fools rant regardless of  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
That's OK by me.  nomorems | 09/19/06
Nobody wants to read and acknowledge two different security reports for  DonnieBoy | 09/19/06
Gee, then don't install a second one.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
Funny, I hate to tell you but 1+1 does not equal 3 (question marks).  nomorems | 09/19/06
And, if you do not want two running, your only option is MS. It does not  DonnieBoy | 09/20/06
Turn the Microsoft on off then  voska | 09/20/06
There is no way to automatically disable the MS security manager, it must  DonnieBoy | 09/20/06
Good!!!  osreinstall | 09/20/06
You tagged him correctly  John Zern | 09/20/06
What a bunch of horse **** .  Intellihence | 09/20/06
You really are clueless.  osreinstall | 09/20/06
That is a good thing.  osreinstall | 09/20/06
So you say MS should mimic BSD .  Intellihence | 09/20/06
In this respect, Yes.  osreinstall | 09/20/06
Oh and at work  voska | 09/20/06
DonnieBoy and you trust Symantic  Michael L Hereid Sr | 09/20/06
Windows Security Center...  nix_hed | 09/20/06
One Care has nothing to do with SC  omdguy | 09/20/06
This Vista is MORE like property in the Las Vegas strip  michael_t | 09/19/06
The part about missing drivers ...  ShadeTree | 09/20/06
I am a UNIX guy; Vista experience looks eerily like a new linux distro  michael_t | 09/20/06
You think ?  Intellihence | 09/20/06
meaning it's more like a freak show or a road-side attraction  michael_t | 09/20/06
Who cares  DarthRidiculous | 09/19/06
Reasons why Microsoft is right (Symantec playing dirty)  defconvegas | 09/19/06
And...  zkiwi | 09/20/06
Microsoft has the right to define Windows  defconvegas | 09/20/06
It's not me  zkiwi | 09/20/06
That's just pathetic  bitfuzzy | 09/20/06
Rivals skirmish with Microsoft over Vista security  Loverock Davidson | 09/19/06
It's not a FEATURE any more than IE is a feature. It's a PRODUCT.  nomorems | 09/19/06
Buwahahahah... Since when  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/19/06
Others see the obvious lock in with Microsoft security products.  nomorems | 09/19/06
How many times are you going cut and paste this?  voska | 09/20/06
Well...  zkiwi | 09/20/06
Yes it is false  voska | 09/21/06
Nothing was ever proven wrong VOSKA .  Intellihence | 09/20/06
Yes it was  voska | 09/21/06
AV companies are the worst products  osreinstall | 09/20/06
and still waiting, and waiting, and waiting,...  not of this world | 09/20/06
10 reasons why I will never again use Symantec antivirus  Herb3 | 09/19/06
Try corporate  Suicida| | 09/19/06
Good Choice  John Zern | 09/20/06
norton software  rick.cresswell | 11/03/06
Hmm, i smell lies  Suicida| | 09/19/06
Never statisfied...  IT_Critic | 09/20/06
um...  nix_hed | 09/20/06
Ridiculous statements  the_seb | 09/20/06
Too Much on the MS Plate  jpr75_z | 09/20/06
Well, Microsoft is interested in security.  Anton Philidor | 09/20/06
Dead Last?  ITCowboy | 09/20/06
Complicated issue.  Anton Philidor | 09/20/06
Total hogwash...  Mike Cox | 09/20/06
Why not.....  ITCowboy | 09/20/06
Windows +Security = Oxymoron  Shelendrea | 09/20/06
I agree..sort of.  Hawk318 | 09/20/06
Where was the whining in XPSP2 when SC was introduced?  omdguy | 09/20/06
MICROSUCKS has no problem with violation of law to increase profits  BeGoneFool | 09/20/06
BeGoneFool where does adding a security Center  Michael L Hereid Sr | 09/20/06
It does it like this...  zkiwi | 09/20/06
Security is actually an OS aspect.  B.O.F.H. | 09/20/06
Why wouldn't security be  Boot_Agnostic | 09/21/06
What I don't understand, Michael  John Zern | 09/20/06
Oh damn you fool .  Intellihence | 09/20/06
Catch 22 then!  Spikey_Mike | 09/21/06
Wait a minute!  joe6pack_z | 09/20/06
Oh, and better yet!!!  joe6pack_z | 09/20/06
Just think twice  hdn.de | 09/22/06
And for you wishing bad on others  Boot_Agnostic | 09/21/06
How secure would it be if an installer could just turn it off?  FatherJ | 09/21/06
... and more so!  hdn.de | 09/22/06
Obsolete??  craptacular@... | 09/22/06
Sockets and plugs  craptacular@... | 09/22/06
This is not the first time microsoft entered security  thomas_rife_z | 10/01/06

What do you think?

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