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By Andy McCue
Posted on ZDNet News: Oct 27, 2003 4:10:00 PM

This is the second part of a silicon.com interview with two UK hackers dryice and frixion who were implicated in testimony during a recent trial over a denial of service attack on one of the largest ports in the United States. Here they reveal how businesses are still leaving themselves woefully exposed to even the most inexperienced script kiddies.


Part I
Hackers reveal underground
frixion and dryice

frixion, who now holds down a steady and respectable job in public sector IT, said that the sheer volume of patches that need applying in order to close the vulnerabilities that are exposed in equally worrying volumes are a headache for administrators.

"Take your standard Windows install for example, you need to apply dozens of patches as soon as you install it to make it even half secure. I’ve just taken a look at the content directory on our Microsoft Software Update Services server here at work and there are over 600Mb of security updates, some critical. Granted they’re not all pertinent to a particular system, but it gives you a good idea," he wrote in an e-mail.

And there are still plenty of familiar and common system vulnerabilities that are easily exploitable by both experienced and inexperienced hackers using freely available source code and tools on the internet, he said.

"The standard overflow techniques are still as widespread as ever. Be it heap/buffer/integer overflow, these probably make up over 90 per cent of new exploits discovered, and with so much open source and a copy of your favorite debugger, it doesn’t take long to work out exactly what shellcode to send a vulnerable system." A technique known as SQL injection is also a problem that leaves many companies exposed, according to dryice--who also now works in the IT industry. This is where information in a database can be compromised by manipulating queries, often through things like HTML forms on websites.

One reason why denial of service attacks are so common is because it is so easy for script kiddies and hackers to download the necessary tools to execute it. But frixion said many could easily be prevented by more responsible action from internet service providers (ISPs).

"ISPs play a vital role in preventing denial of service attacks. It is usually very easy for administrators to apply rules to filter such attacks, for both inbound and outbound attacks. We have systems for this in place at our co-location centre, and have yet to see any of our hosted servers go down during an attack," he said.

The other option, of course, is to go with the geek and hacker's favorite operating systems of choice. frixion said that Unix and Linux have become even harder to penetrate, saying that even out of the box "most become practically impenetrable" with just a small amount of configuration.

"Gone are the days where you could just compile some readily available source and just give it an IP (that you found with your ultra-fast banner scanner) on the command line, and drop a root shell in the newest distribution of Red Hat," he said.

A bigger threat facing businesses and home users, and one that anti-virus companies have been warning about for some time is the 'blended threat' virus with a devastating payload. One security source recently told us that some of the recent attempts such as Sobig were just one step away from having a payload that would erase the victim's hard drive.

dryice said: "One of the most frightening concepts that possibly looms on the horizon, is the creation of a worm similar to Blaster/Nachi/Sobig, but with a potentially lethal payload. So far the symptoms suffered by people affected by these worms have been pretty mild, just imagine what would happen if someone made one that irreversibly deleted files or dropped database tables."

Both hackers still put the blame for breaches at those who perpetrate the crimes, and not the businesses for failing to have adequate security.

"If you’re walking down the street and see an empty car with its keys in the ignition, does that give you the right to drive away in it?"

But frixion warned that for businesses today it is a case of when rather than if its systems will come under attack.

"The bottom line is no matter whom you are, someone will try and gain access to your system at some point in existence, and whether or not they are successful is down to you or your administrator."

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  • Most Recent of 74 Talkback(s)
Something to remember
You forget that the media do not stick to the "facts" when it comes to branding people a hacker or a cracker.
Just for arguments sake, you could brand me both, in all senses of the words, I've done... (Read the rest)
Posted by: frixion Posted on: 11/13/03 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Is this an "I told ya so" or what.  Squawkbox | 10/27/03
Where's No_Ax?  Chad_z | 10/27/03
Interesting, you share the sme views...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/27/03
Re: Interesting, you share the sme (sic) views...  Martin Marvinski | 10/27/03
Huh, read his post again.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/27/03
Re: Huh, read his post again  Martin Marvinski | 10/27/03
They're still scum  DO_z | 10/27/03
What a limitted viewpoint?  John Le'Brecage | 10/28/03
I have a somewhat different viewpoint.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/28/03
Their point is that the crooks have knowledge than can be useful  doctormoriarty | 10/28/03
You've been fed a falacy.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/28/03
Couldn't agree more...  John Le'Brecage | 10/28/03
how they helped  ryusen | 10/28/03
Show me were it SOLVED anything.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/28/03
and show me  ryusen | 10/28/03
DCS: Answers to barred posts...  John Le'Brecage | 10/28/03
welcome back Bitty  blahblahblah | 10/28/03
Safe Systems  samp_z | 10/27/03
notice...  ryusen | 10/27/03
but..  d_jedi | 10/27/03
it's probably a combination of many factors  ryusen | 10/27/03
Linux users and ethically void  Squawkbox | 10/27/03
Here's another one  Chad_z | 10/27/03
Bad administration  pschroeder@... | 10/27/03
Read it again  pschroeder@... | 10/27/03
Re: Read it again  Martin Marvinski | 10/27/03
Wrong wrong wrong  pschroeder@... | 10/27/03
Wrong Wrong Wrong  samp_z | 10/28/03
the problem is...  ryusen | 10/28/03
Re: Safe Systems  Martin Marvinski | 10/27/03
Same with RedHat  JoeMama_z | 10/27/03
Re: Same with RedHat  Martin Marvinski | 10/27/03
Rapist say rape victims are to blame.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/27/03
difference is  ryusen | 10/27/03
It's always the victims 'fault'.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/27/03
of course you missed the point  ryusen | 10/27/03
No it is YOU that miss the point.  DO_z | 10/27/03
Wow  Fanatical Desperado | 10/28/03
At least SOMEONE gets it.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/28/03
well it isn't you or your alter ego  ryusen | 10/28/03
No it is YOU that miss the point.  bchesmer | 10/28/03
On that you can bet the farm.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/28/03
First off, hackers ARE criminals  DO_z | 10/28/03
just say no  lmaxwell | 11/01/03
Please stop making this analogy: it does you no credit.  dw@... | 10/28/03
Talkback  nrlz | 10/28/03
The analogy in question served it's purpose...  DO_z | 10/28/03
What does this hacker use?  pschroeder@... | 10/27/03
Not enough information  IT_User | 10/27/03
True  pschroeder@... | 10/27/03
you're overlooking the obvious  Fanatical Desperado | 10/27/03
re: Peter  ryusen | 10/27/03
To all  pschroeder@... | 10/27/03
you miss the obvious  ryusen | 10/28/03
What does this hacker use?  bchesmer | 10/28/03
Assumptions  pschroeder@... | 10/29/03
You seem to be confused.  frixion | 11/13/03
... and an apology  frixion | 11/13/03
Hard to secure windows?  JoeMama_z | 10/27/03
Talkback prove the MS PR campain is working  Richard Flude | 10/27/03
Please give me a break!  DO_z | 10/27/03
Please give me a break!  bchesmer | 10/28/03
been a grip with me for a long time  JoeMama_z | 10/28/03
Someone Curious?  DO_z | 10/28/03
Nitpicking isn't gonna change the substance of the message...  DO_z | 10/28/03
think we need a new name  lmaxwell | 11/01/03
breaks...  ryusen | 10/28/03
Thanks for the info but....  DO_z | 10/28/03
Something to remember  frixion | 11/13/03
Funny  Richard Flude | 10/28/03
so then we should just let them be...  DO_z | 10/28/03
Confused by your posting  Richard Flude | 10/29/03
insanity vs. fantasy  xshakes | 10/28/03
perople that  lmaxwell | 11/01/03

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