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By John G. Spooner
Posted on ZDNet News: Feb 1, 2005 10:34:00 PM

For Apple Computer, releasing a G5 PowerBook continues to be a weighty issue.

Apple customers have been waiting for the company to deliver a PowerBook driven by the G5 chip for some time. The more powerful chip first arrived in the Power Mac line in 2003, and Apple began offering it in the iMac last year.

The computer maker is well aware that Mac fans want a G5 PowerBook, and technically, the company could offer one now. But given the relatively power-hungry nature of the IBM PowerPC 970FX processor--Apple has dubbed the 970FX and its predecessor, the 970, "G5" chips--a G5 PowerBook would require compromises in size, weight and other aesthetics such as noise production. Apple, and likely most of its customers, wouldn't be willing to live with that.

News.context

What's new:
Never ones to keep quiet about what they want, Mac fans have made their desire for a G5 PowerBook well-known.

Bottom line:
Apple knows Mac users want a G5 PowerBook. But the company also knows that making one now would mean design compromises most Mac users wouldn't be willing to swallow. While some observers think Apple could produce the hoped-for notebook within a year, for now, the wait is on.

More stories on the PowerBook

"It'd be this really thick, heavy notebook, and it would be loud as all get-out," said Kevin Krewell, editor in chief of the Microprocessor Report. "Those would not be design choices that Apple would want to pursue."

Apple acknowledges the design challenge.

"It is fair to say that incorporating a G5 into a notebook as thin and light as the PowerBook is extremely difficult," David Moody, vice president of worldwide Mac product marketing at Apple, told CNET News.com on Monday.

Instead of releasing the much-hoped-for G5 PowerBook, Apple on Monday introduced a new lineup of PowerBooks with slightly faster G4 processors. It also added more memory, as well as features such as a scrolling TrackPad and a motion sensor that protects the PowerBooks' hard drives if the machines are dropped. Moody wouldn't say whether the updated PowerBooks represent the last revision to the line before a switch to the G5, nor did he offer further details on when the company might offer a G5 laptop.

What's the holdup?
The main thing holding back a G5 PowerBook is the chip itself. IBM technical documents show that when running at 2.5GHz and 1.3 volts, the chip consumes a maximum of 100 watts of power, a fair amount of juice for a notebook. However, its power consumption can be reduced by lowering its clock speed or reducing its clock speed along with its voltage, IBM documentation shows.

An IBM representative declined to comment on the company's plans for the Power PC 970 chip line and did not return a follow-up call requesting comment on the technical document.

That's not to say a 100-watt chip cannot be built into a notebook. Dell's Inspiron XPS, for one, offers Intel's 3.4GHz Intel Pentium 4 Extreme Edition processor, which is designed for desktops. Intel's thermal-design guidelines call for computers using the chip to be able to dissipate heat produced by a chip of nearly 110 watts.

But the Dell machine, which comes with a 15.4-inch wide screen, is a relatively hefty 2 inches thick and weighs just over 9 pounds with a CD drive and battery installed. Apple's 17-inch screen PowerBook measures 1 inch thick and weighs in at 6.9 pounds with a CD drive and battery. (Apple's 12-inch and 15-inch screen PowerBooks are 1.18 inches and 1.1 inches thick and weigh 4.6 pounds and 5.6 pounds, respectively. Dell's Pentium M-based, 17-inch screen Inspiron 9200 is 1.6 inches thick and weighs 7.7 pounds.)

Thus, to fit the G5 into a typical PowerBook-size chassis, Apple would have to throttle down the G5, causing the chip to run more slowly than current G4 mobile chips--or produce a bulkier laptop, probably with noisy cooling fans. The G4 also would likely still consume less power, the Microprocessor Report's Krewell said.

Although the wait might be painful for customers who want the latest technology from Apple, the company is likely to hold out for a low-power G5, a chip that could come later this year. The lower-power chip would consume less watts and also produce less heat, allowing Apple to fit it inside the thin chassis that's typical of a PowerBook.

Hadley Stern, who runs the AppleMatters blog and has published an iPod book, said aesthetics are important.

While he would be interested in a more powerful PowerBook, "if the G5 PowerBook is quite a bit larger than the present form-factor, I may pass," he said. "I use my 12-inch PowerBook mostly for writing and checking e-mail and Web surfing. The G4 processor does just fine by me, and whenever I need to design, I hop on my (dual processor) G5."

Chris Holland, another well-known Mac blogger, said those drooling the most over the prospect of a G5 PowerBook are Mac fans who For Apple Computer, releasing a G5 PowerBook continues to be a weighty issue.

Apple customers have been waiting for the company to deliver a PowerBook driven by the G5 chip for some time. The more powerful chip first arrived in the Power Mac line in 2003, and Apple began offering it in the iMac last year.

The computer maker is well aware that Mac fans want a G5 PowerBook, and technically, the company could offer one now. But given the relatively power-hungry nature of the IBM PowerPC 970FX processor--Apple has dubbed the 970FX and its predecessor, the 970, "G5" chips--a G5 PowerBook would require compromises in size, weight and other aesthetics such as noise production. Apple, and likely most of its customers, wouldn't be willing to live with that.

News.context

What's new:
Never ones to keep quiet about what they want, Mac fans have made their desire for a G5 PowerBook well-known.

Bottom line:
Apple knows Mac users want a G5 PowerBook. But the company also knows that making one now would mean design compromises most Mac users wouldn't be willing to swallow. While some observers think Apple could produce the hoped-for notebook within a year, for now, the wait is on.

More stories on the PowerBook

"It'd be this really thick, heavy notebook, and it would be loud as all get-out," said Kevin Krewell, editor in chief of the Microprocessor Report. "Those would not be design choices that Apple would want to pursue."

Apple acknowledges the design challenge.

"It is fair to say that incorporating a G5 into a notebook as thin and light as the PowerBook is extremely difficult," David Moody, vice president of worldwide Mac product marketing at Apple, told CNET News.com on Monday.

Instead of releasing the much-hoped-for G5 PowerBook, Apple on Monday introduced a new lineup of PowerBooks with slightly faster G4 processors. It also added more memory, as well as features such as a scrolling TrackPad and a motion sensor that protects the PowerBooks' hard drives if the machines are dropped. Moody wouldn't say whether the updated PowerBooks represent the last revision to the line before a switch to the G5, nor did he offer further details on when the company might offer a G5 laptop.

What's the holdup?
The main thing holding back a G5 PowerBook is the chip itself. IBM technical documents show that when running at 2.5GHz and 1.3 volts, the chip consumes a maximum of 100 watts of power, a fair amount of juice for a notebook. However, its power consumption can be reduced by lowering its clock speed or reducing its clock speed along with its voltage, IBM documentation shows.

An IBM representative declined to comment on the company's plans for the Power PC 970 chip line and did not return a follow-up call requesting comment on the technical document.

That's not to say a 100-watt chip cannot be built into a notebook. Dell's Inspiron XPS, for one, offers Intel's 3.4GHz Intel Pentium 4 Extreme Edition processor, which is designed for desktops. Intel's thermal-design guidelines call for computers using the chip to be able to dissipate heat produced by a chip of nearly 110 watts.

But the Dell machine, which comes with a 15.4-inch wide screen, is a relatively hefty 2 inches thick and weighs just over 9 pounds with a CD drive and battery installed. Apple's 17-inch screen PowerBook measures 1 inch thick and weighs in at 6.9 pounds with a CD drive and battery. (Apple's 12-inch and 15-inch screen PowerBooks are 1.18 inches and 1.1 inches thick and weigh 4.6 pounds and 5.6 pounds, respectively. Dell's Pentium M-based, 17-inch screen Inspiron 9200 is 1.6 inches thick and weighs 7.7 pounds.)

Thus, to fit the G5 into a typical PowerBook-size chassis, Apple would have to throttle down the G5, causing the chip to run more slowly than current G4 mobile chips--or produce a bulkier laptop, probably with noisy cooling fans. The G4 also would likely still consume less power, the Microprocessor Report's Krewell said.

Although the wait might be painful for customers who want the latest technology from Apple, the company is likely to hold out for a low-power G5, a chip that could come later this year. The lower-power chip would consume less watts and also produce less heat, allowing Apple to fit it inside the thin chassis that's typical of a PowerBook.

Hadley Stern, who runs the AppleMatters blog and has published an iPod book, said aesthetics are important.

While he would be interested in a more powerful PowerBook, "if the G5 PowerBook is quite a bit larger than the present form-factor, I may pass," he said. "I use my 12-inch PowerBook mostly for writing and checking e-mail and Web surfing. The G4 processor does just fine by me, and whenever I need to design, I hop on my (dual processor) G5."

Chris Holland, another well-known Mac blogger, said those drooling the most over the prospect of a G5 PowerBook are Mac fans who skipped on the G4.

"While the Mac community seems very much hungry for it, I would rationalize it as your typical cautious lust for greater bang for the buck, as many are looking to replace their G3-based systems," Holland said.

The savior of the G5 in a PowerBook could be a new chip manufacturing technique being used by IBM, whose chip group is expected to introduce a low-power PowerPC 970 later this year, Krewell said.

One procedure involves a new twist on strained silicon, a manufacturing technique that boosts performance by speeding up the transistors, the tiny on-off switches inside the chips. That can lead to better chip performance and lower power consumption.

Halfway there?
Krewell said he expects IBM is actively trying to put strained silicon into production as fast as it can in order to get the 970 into a notebook. "It might be reasonable that they could get something by midyear," he said. "I think it's going to be a challenge to get that part into the 40-watt rage. Even at that (range) it's going to be hard to fit into the Apple aesthetics--weight power and battery life. That's what's keeping the G5 out of the PowerBooks right now."

In some respects Apple is already about halfway down the road to a G5 PowerBook, as it was able to fit the chip into its 2-inch think iMac G5. However, Apple executives cautioned that the next inch will be a tough one in terms of chassis engineering. The iMac G5, which came out last August, is still twice as thick as the 17-inch PowerBook, Greg Joswiak, Apple's vice president of hardware marketing noted at the time.

"The challenges of cooling a G5 in a PowerBook design are significantly greater," he said.

Thus, while it's widely believed Apple could come out with a G5 PowerBook sometime later this year, some think it might take longer. Michael Gartenberg, an analyst for Jupiter Research, said he would be surprised to see G5 portables in 2005.

"A G5 PowerBook is going to happen, but not as soon as a lot of people would like," Gartenberg said. "Apple is concerned about preserving the entire mobile experience, as opposed to just putting a G5 in a box and sticking a handle on it."

"At the end of the day," Gartenberg said, "Apple is much more focused on driving a complete user experience, rather than coming up with a stopgap solution."

skipped on the G4.

"While the Mac community seems very much hungry for it, I would rationalize it as your typical cautious lust for greater bang for the buck, as many are looking to replace their G3-based systems," Holland said.

The savior of the G5 in a PowerBook could be a new chip manufacturing technique being used by IBM, whose chip group is expected to introduce a low-power PowerPC 970 later this year, Krewell said.

One procedure involves a new twist on strained silicon, a manufacturing technique that boosts performance by speeding up the transistors, the tiny on-off switches inside the chips. That can lead to better chip performance and lower power consumption.

Halfway there?
Krewell said he expects IBM is actively trying to put strained silicon into production as fast as it can in order to get the 970 into a notebook. "It might be reasonable that they could get something by midyear," he said. "I think it's going to be a challenge to get that part into the 40-watt rage. Even at that (range) it's going to be hard to fit into the Apple aesthetics--weight power and battery life. That's what's keeping the G5 out of the PowerBooks right now."

In some respects Apple is already about halfway down the road to a G5 PowerBook, as it was able to fit the chip into its 2-inch think iMac G5. However, Apple executives cautioned that the next inch will be a tough one in terms of chassis engineering. The iMac G5, which came out last August, is still twice as thick as the 17-inch PowerBook, Greg Joswiak, Apple's vice president of hardware marketing noted at the time.

"The challenges of cooling a G5 in a PowerBook design are significantly greater," he said.

Thus, while it's widely believed Apple could come out with a G5 PowerBook sometime later this year, some think it might take longer. Michael Gartenberg, an analyst for Jupiter Research, said he would be surprised to see G5 portables in 2005.

"A G5 PowerBook is going to happen, but not as soon as a lot of people would like," Gartenberg said. "Apple is concerned about preserving the entire mobile experience, as opposed to just putting a G5 in a box and sticking a handle on it."

"At the end of the day," Gartenberg said, "Apple is much more focused on driving a complete user experience, rather than coming up with a stopgap solution."

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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 140 Talkback(s)
Tic, you failed with the second task of the challenge.
Tic you insisted that Photoshop 8 does not exist.

Let's check it:

Tic, highlight Photoshop CS (the application, not the alias), go to Get Info, check Version ? you?ll see 8.0 (it means P... (Read the rest)
Posted by: Vily Clay Posted on: 02/04/05 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Well darn the bad luck!  Linux User 147560 | 02/01/05
That's what separates Apple from the rest.  dave95 | 02/02/05
3% of the market is not the first priority for IBM.  Vily Clay | 02/01/05
You need to read up on that a little more, son.  olePigeon | 02/01/05
Vily  rkadowns | 02/01/05
IBM & Apple work very well together  Ken_z | 02/01/05
Dell which uses Intel only...  ShadeTree | 02/02/05
Depends on how many Xbox sell....The volume of Xbox  Laff | 02/02/05
The G5 in it's current incarnation will...  ShadeTree | 02/02/05
That is true..however the XBox2 is NOT out yet...so  Laff | 02/02/05
Xbox2 does not use a G5  doh123 | 02/02/05
Kind of speaks volumes doesn't it...  MacCanuck | 02/02/05
Xbox will help G5 development  tic swayback | 02/02/05
nonsense  bdog | 02/02/05
correction  rcark01 | 02/02/05
Lies, dam* lies, and statistics  alterego_z | 02/02/05
LOL!  rcark01 | 02/02/05
The CPU for Apple is not the same as the rest. (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
Probably going to regret this..but what the heck does  Laff | 02/02/05
Do you know the difference between PPC 970 and PPC 970FX? (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
Apparently two letters...FX. Yes I know there is a  Laff | 02/02/05
What was the purpose of your post?  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
You are correct it is better to invest than to waist  Laff | 02/02/05
If you need a computer but instead you bought a toy ? ...  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
I'm a guy...so buying Toys is cool with me! Far better  Laff | 02/02/05
It?s OK that playing with toys is better than working for you.  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
Playing and getting PAID is way better than working  Laff | 02/02/05
Thus Laff, you are a hidden Communist. Is it a fault of Allah? (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
IT Workers of the World Unite!  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Now we have one more brainless post from Tic.  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
Just because you don't get it that doesn't mean it's not funny Vily  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Talking here for no reason is funny only for idiots and you, Tic. (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
Then why do you do it? Are you an idiot too? (NT)  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Tic, you show no gratitude ? I help your mind to get well. (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
You need to help harder  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Tic, how can I treat your mind using Internet? (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
By supplying the answers you promised me  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Hmmmmm...Vily. I enjoy what I do..so instead of  Laff | 02/03/05
Tic, why do you worry about?  Vily Clay | 02/03/05
I just want to be like you Vily. You are my hero.  tic swayback | 02/03/05
Wow Tic, now you added to what you have the Grand Delusion.  Vily Clay | 02/03/05
Worshipping you is worse than worshipping Steve Jobs?  tic swayback | 02/03/05
Steve promised a 3 GHz CPU Mac in 12 months, but lied again. So do you (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/04/05
You didn't actually read the article though, did you?  Fred Fredrickson | 02/04/05
Apple market shrinks, stock is growing. Everything looks normal, right? (NT  Vily Clay | 02/04/05
3% of a big pie is better than 30% of a small pie  MacGeek2121 | 02/02/05
Stupid me, I thought that 97% is bigger than 3%. (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
Which PC maker has 97% of the market? (NT)  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Better yet, Tic, which CHIP manuf. has 97% of the market (NT)  bgoss@... | 02/02/05
No chip manufacturer has 97% of the market  tic swayback | 02/02/05
What you failed to say....  ShadeTree | 02/02/05
Percentage means NOTHING. Profit means EVERYTHING!  Laff | 02/02/05
Just looking to correct Vily's error  tic swayback | 02/02/05
You need to make logical comparisons  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Vily, please use accurate numbers  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Unfortunately Tic, your disease is incurable for now.  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
I'd be saved Vily, if only you would help me  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Tic BELIEVES he is smart. Let?s see.  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
I would be smarter, if you would only answer my question  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Tic you have no brains to think.  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
You keep changing your story, but you're still wrong  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Thus Tic, you proved you lost the ability to talk for a reason. (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
I wish I could follow you Vily, I really do.  tic swayback | 02/02/05
PC Guidance for idiots like Tic.  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
Details Vily, Details  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Details are for people who can think. Unfortunately you can?t think.  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
That link doesn't tell me which PC to buy, or which programs  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Tic, it?s because your mind is not cured yet. (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
I can't buy a PC and enjoy Windows until you cure me?  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Oh, you changed your religion again? Is Mac an inferior computer now? (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/03/05
Yes Vily, you are my new God  tic swayback | 02/03/05
Tic, your memory failed again ?you believed the ONLY your God is Steve Jobs  Vily Clay | 02/03/05
That was before I met you Vily. You are my new God.  tic swayback | 02/03/05
Tic, if you?re looking for Prozac ? I can?t help you. (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/03/05
You should be able to spare some Prozac...  tic swayback | 02/03/05
Tic, you?re the only person who is lying. I can?t help you. (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/04/05
Tic, you failed to use your logic again. Why are you so stupid?  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
Interesting - my posts taking vily to task are deleted  bgoss@... | 02/02/05
bgoss, you are a next to Tic dreamer.  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
Mine too. Maybe Vily is the ZDNet Sys Admin. (NT)  buddhistMonkey | 02/02/05
It?s simple ? ZDNet did not like my description of Tic & Apple. (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
I wonder why?  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Because it was too painful for them to see how stupid you are, Tic. (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
That must be the reason  tic swayback | 02/02/05
OK Tic, you attacked my first post because you were too stupid.  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
Wow, the moderators are gonna like that one  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Tic, you didn?t accept the challenge = you admitted you?re stupid. (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
Vily, you know I corrected that post  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Tic, and how often do you do it (misleading)? (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/03/05
On purpose? Never. How about you?  tic swayback | 02/03/05
OK, Round Two ? How Tic is lying ...  Vily Clay | 02/03/05
I see you chose option #1, changing the subject  tic swayback | 02/03/05
Thus Tic, you lost the challenge = you admitted you?re stupid. (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/03/05
Run and hide coward  tic swayback | 02/03/05
Tic, you failed with the second task of the challenge.  Vily Clay | 02/04/05
Why are you so stupid?  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 02/02/05
I don't think it's sour grapes  tic swayback | 02/02/05
2 Apple parrots ? Immanuel and Tic came together.  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
Vily wants a cracker?  tic swayback | 02/02/05
I though you can offer me a sane thought but you?re not able to do it (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
I thought you were going to tell me of a PC and programs better than iLife  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Tic, iLife paranoia makes your mental status worse. Need more help? (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/02/05
More help with paranoia? No thanks.  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Tic, as usually you forgot you already wrote me you love junk. It?s OK. (NT  Vily Clay | 02/03/05
Work on those reading and logic skills Vily  tic swayback | 02/03/05
Because you love junk computers ?Mac & software ? iLife & junk cars as well  Vily Clay | 02/03/05
I'm trying to switch to junk PC software instead  tic swayback | 02/03/05
Tic, your behaviors fit in a description of bipolar disorders too. (NT)  Vily Clay | 02/03/05
You know a lot about mental disorders. When was yours diagnosed? (NT)  tic swayback | 02/03/05
Tic, Vily: please go away  S.Howard-SarinZDNet Moderator | 02/03/05
Sorry for the annoyance Stephen  tic swayback | 02/03/05
To Stephen Howard-Sarin.  Vily Clay | 02/04/05
G4 Chip Isn't Killing The Speed  ericortner | 02/01/05
Apple uses FSB in Hz, not just DDR like others.  doh123 | 02/02/05
Apples and oranges...  ShadeTree | 02/02/05
Get to the back of the busses!!!  Laff | 02/02/05
actually, no, im not (NT)  doh123 | 02/02/05
G4  TWRX | 02/01/05
how rich is this  rcark01 | 02/02/05
It's simple history. There was a time when IBM went  Laff | 02/02/05
I am sick of the misquoting!!!!!  wolf_z | 02/02/05
It just does not flow as well as friend. Besides even  Laff | 02/02/05
Except when...  ShadeTree | 02/02/05
Apple aslo owns the PPC processor....  Laff | 02/02/05
Wouldn't that be G5 Mac's...  ShadeTree | 02/02/05
Yes to be fair we should compare Apple's to Apple's  Laff | 02/02/05
Since Apple is part of the PPC group....  tic swayback | 02/02/05
Typical  rcark01 | 02/02/05
Facts is facts...can't tought that!!!! (dancing)  Laff | 02/02/05
IBM, Apple, XBox 2 and the G5  brilang | 02/02/05
mostly true, but...  doh123 | 02/02/05
The importance of good design  tic swayback | 02/02/05
good design?  rcark01 | 02/02/05
Good design is in the eye of the beholder  tic swayback | 02/02/05
One would have to use majority rules....ie the  Laff | 02/02/05
Centrino laptops offer NO compromises  Prognosticator | 02/03/05
Plenty of compromises  tic swayback | 02/03/05
Not just a pretty face...  MacCanuck | 02/03/05
Big disadvantage to Macs  tic swayback | 02/03/05
very funny  doh123 | 02/03/05

What do you think?

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