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By Stephen Shankland, News.com
Posted on ZDNet News: Aug 2, 2004 4:01:00 AM

Linux potentially infringes 283 patents, including 27 held by Microsoft but none that have been validated by court judgments, according to a group that sells insurance to protect those using or selling Linux against intellectual-property litigation.

Dan Ravicher, founder and executive director of the Public Patent Foundation, conducted the analysis for Open Source Risk Management. OSRM is like an insurance company, selling legal protection against Linux copyright-infringement claims. It plans to expand the program to patent protections.

Of the 283 patents, 98 are owned by Linux allies, OSRM said, including 60 from IBM, 20 from Hewlett-Packard and 11 from Intel. The months-long review examined versions 2.4 and 2.6 of the kernel, or heart, of Linux, Ravicher said.

Though OSRM's patent protection won't start until the beginning of 2005, it has set pricing: $150,000 per year for coverage of lawsuit and settlement costs of up to $5 million, Ravicher said.

OSRM's patent-protection plans are the latest development in the sometimes uneasy interaction between the open-source programming movement, which shares code freely, and the proprietary software world, which puts a premium on technology as private property. The issue became a very real concern when the SCO Group sued IBM, arguing that Big Blue had moved proprietary Unix technology into Linux against the terms of a contract.

And the issue has been getting more attention. A just-surfaced 2-year-old memo from a Hewlett-Packard executive highlighted patent-infringement risks in Linux, and Linux foe Microsoft is putting increasing emphasis on its patent portfolio, with a goal to apply for 3,000 new patents this year.

Linux programmers will sidestep any patent infringement problems that arise, said Stuart Cohen, chief executive of Open Source Development Labs, a Linux consortium that employs Linux leader Linus Torvalds.

"As we said in response to the SCO allegations, OSDL is prepared to work with the development community to remedy any offending code in Linux that infringes on the legitimate legal rights of others, and we extend that as well to any issues around patents," Cohen said.

Although OSRM stands to profit from the intellectual-property fears concerning Linux, the start-up takes pains to ally itself with the open-source cause--in part because more Linux users means a larger market, Ravicher said.

Open-source advocate Bruce Perens is on OSRM's board, and the company employs Pamela Jones of the SCO-watcher Groklaw Web site to help compile details on the history of Unix and Linux technology. And Ravicher represents the Free Software Foundation, the group that created the General Public License (GPL) that governs Linux and many other open-source programs.

In Ravicher's opinion, 283 patents could be a basis for Linux infringement lawsuits, but that leaves open the question of whether a court would find actual infringement or whether the patent would ruled invalid. Of patents challenged in court, about half are found to be invalid, Ravicher said.

That number isn't unusually high for a package comparable to Linux, he added. Microsoft, for example, faces several patent suits, he said.

An artifact of current patent law in the United States is that companies and individuals are discouraged from seeing if their products infringe, Ravicher said.

"If you have knowledge and are found to infringe, a court can punish you," tripling financial penalties, Ravicher said. "If you say you didn't know and didn't see it, a court can't punish you. It's a screwed-up rule."

Linux founder and leader Linus Torvalds has taken that approach. "Finding patent infringement has always been a responsibility of the patent holders," he said in a 2003 interview. "It is a fact that I do not encourage engineers to look up patent information."

Red Hat, the top seller of Linux, offers reassurances not just about Linux but about higher-level open-source software the company offers. "We feel confident that our open-source solutions do not infringe on the valid intellectual-property rights of others," the company said earlier in July.

Because of the effect that knowledge of potential infringement has, OSRM isn't releasing its list of patents.

"If we were to publish the patents, we've now put everyone on notice of those patents. For those who have tried to avoid them, we've forced them to know of them, so we've screwed the community," Ravicher said. "If someone really wants to know, they can do the search themselves."

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 335 Talkback(s)
However...
OSRM isn't likely to volunteer any information it has gained from their work as it will likely diminish their value in the whole charade... Remember, it is in their benefit that the "potential" paten... (Read the rest)
Posted by: four-eyes_z Posted on: 05/29/07 You are currently: Logged In | Log out
Good luck on this... Martin Marvinski   | 08/01/04
Re-read the article. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
And... Martin Marvinski   | 08/02/04
Yes we red the article! Mack DaNife   | 08/02/04
Is OSRM now an accomplice? gitmo   | 08/03/04
Microsoft patents... Jomo_z   | 08/02/04
LOL, The Patent Office employees Fools... el1jones   | 08/02/04
Your being a little harse on the Patent Office.. DigitalKid   | 08/02/04
Idiotically simple ideas shouldn't be patentable Jomo_z   | 08/03/04
Absolutely!!!! coffeenite   | 08/03/04
Prior Art bc_bc   | 08/03/04
Give me a break! TechDiva_z   | 08/02/04
I bet MS wouldn't be too thrilled... four-eyes_z   | 05/29/07
This patent infringes on all slideshow systems already in use. (NT) Update victim   | 08/02/04
Excuse me I'm just popping down to the patent office! agottschald   | 08/02/04
283 patents? d_jedi   | 08/01/04
Poor math. More like a hundred or so patents. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
the simple solution here... ryusen   | 08/02/04
Poor understanding...Please try again. Mack DaNife   | 08/02/04
You missed the point completely d_jedi   | 08/02/04
That's exactly what they don't want to do. Anton Philidor   | 08/02/04
Ignorance will slow adoption of Linux d_jedi   | 08/02/04
Any faster if many patent violations acknowledged? Anton Philidor   | 08/02/04
Don't need to fix them all at once.. d_jedi   | 08/03/04
You do see the problem correctly now. Anton Philidor   | 08/03/04
However... four-eyes_z   | 05/29/07
Move uno@...   | 08/02/04
Escaping patents? Anton Philidor   | 08/02/04
Don't Buy It jskline@...   | 08/05/04
Toto We're not in Kansas any more Squawkbox   | 08/01/04
I don't think so... DarbyOhara   | 08/02/04
I don't think so... thetruth_z   | 08/02/04
How silly... No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
From who? Mack DaNife   | 08/02/04
I hope so Loverock Davidson   | 08/02/04
Maybe you shouldn't TechDiva_z   | 08/02/04
You got it! nomorems   | 08/02/04
A minor correction. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
I'm afraid you're right but I hope you are wrong. Squawkbox   | 08/02/04
They won't sue "Linux". No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
Patents != Copyrights mlybbert   | 08/02/04
it's a vicious circle.... ryusen   | 08/02/04
Squash competition through litigation robradina@...   | 08/04/04
And Microsoft *DOES* infringe at least one David Mohring   | 08/02/04
When your OS sucks and is in trouble, shift attention somewhere else! (NT) Loverock Davidson   | 08/02/04
UM.. Lovey.. you just described Microsoft! Xunil_Sierutuf   | 08/02/04
And Linsux LOL ROFL LOLOLOLOL! Loverock Davidson   | 08/02/04
Loverock will you date me? juliancat   | 08/02/04
So, that exlains it AmusedAtItAll   | 08/02/04
Clue one: This is about LINUX infringing, not MS. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
Who is this LINUX that is doing the infringing? B.O.F.H.   | 08/02/04
Was that another pathetic attempt at insult? No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
Oh, grasshopper AmusedAtItAll   | 08/02/04
Try again! Mack DaNife   | 08/02/04
The Thing Is Hayvern   | 08/02/04
I Think Not! The King's Servant   | 08/02/04
You don't have to buy SCO at all uno@...   | 08/05/04
The thing is: AmusedAtItAll   | 08/02/04
Ok Who Let the Troll Out Anyway Hayvern   | 08/04/04
"The holier than thou crowd" Ole Man   | 05/28/07
I'm not so sure uno@...   | 08/05/04
See a ParadigmOdyssey   | 08/02/04
Funny word "MAY" meaning "We don't know" Laff   | 08/02/04
Perhaps PA-ITGuy   | 08/02/04
Patents are often overly broad uno@...   | 08/05/04
May = Don't ask, don't tell. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
My point being.."IF" is see a guy driving a knife Laff   | 08/02/04
Re-read it again. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
Read my post too Enterprise below... Laff   | 08/02/04
well put johnnyu   | 08/02/04
You obviously don't understand the court system. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
Before that happens...something has to be proven Laff   | 08/02/04
Don't understand much of anything johnnyu   | 08/02/04
Ok, that's enough TechDiva_z   | 08/02/04
From you, yes it is. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
And history repeats itself AmusedAtItAll   | 08/02/04
I thought only lovesick was capable of making really stupid comments AmusedAtItAll   | 08/02/04
You are... KOS-MOS   | 08/03/04
May is perfectly legit Mack DaNife   | 08/02/04
Group: Linux potentially infringes 283 patents Loverock Davidson   | 08/02/04
Displaying your illiteracy again, eh? Judas I.   | 08/02/04
Eh! Loverock Davidson   | 08/02/04
So, am I to understand ... Judas I.   | 08/02/04
You don't understand Loverock Davidson   | 08/02/04
Okay, so go ahead ... Judas I.   | 08/02/04
"someone thats in the know, like me" Ole Man   | 05/28/07
Dangers uno@...   | 08/05/04
I just gotta ask rlodge@...   | 08/02/04
No do you? Loverock Davidson   | 08/02/04
Oh Rock, Rock, Rock... The King's Servant   | 08/02/04
Sorry Loverock Davidson   | 08/02/04
You had used the word 'perfect' The King's Servant   | 08/04/04
Never cease to be amazed AmusedAtItAll   | 08/02/04
The worm likes his compost Ole Man   | 05/28/07
283 Possible patent infringement - and that's just for the kernel P. Douglas   | 08/02/04
Promoting their business. Anton Philidor   | 08/02/04
Oh, you meant holders of the patents. Anton Philidor   | 08/02/04
Interesting example AmusedAtItAll   | 08/02/04
How about a little proof to back up your silly claims AmusedAtItAll   | 08/02/04
Okay, you win, no patent/copyright problems at all. Anton Philidor   | 08/03/04
283/2 means 141 are real problem. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
Ouch, watch where you're slinging that FUD, Bitty! Xunil_Sierutuf   | 08/02/04
Not a bit of FUD anywhere. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
Do you really want johnnyu   | 08/02/04
Would you folks stop with this silly "patent war" No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
IBM has more to lose... OldeTimeGeek   | 08/02/04
Hmmm, how many IBM PC's ship with Windows? No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
you mean the monopoly desktop OS? ryusen   | 08/02/04
Bla, bla, bla AmusedAtItAll   | 08/03/04
Based upon what is in the article... B.O.F.H.   | 08/02/04
Nothig has to be proven. You have it backwards. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
Wait a minute here... Laff   | 08/02/04
Actually, if one makes a claim or patent infringement… B.O.F.H.   | 08/02/04
Oh now that would be so cool. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
That will never happen... Mack DaNife   | 08/02/04
No one said close the compmany. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
The operative word is: The King's Servant   | 08/02/04
Don't argue johnnyu   | 08/02/04
Bzzzt nomorems   | 08/02/04
don't forget that... ryusen   | 08/02/04
More than that none none   | 08/02/04
Yeah, sure lengua99   | 08/03/04
not even 141 are problems Thyme   | 08/02/04
Deja Vu all over again AmusedAtItAll   | 08/03/04
Woohoo! EJHonda   | 08/02/04
I'm sure all of MS' patents are invalid or prior art. Xunil_Sierutuf   | 08/02/04
One more time just for you. The article is about Linux, not MS. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
Great.... Martin Marvinski   | 08/02/04
and the article also mentions... ryusen   | 08/02/04
Another excellent example of how... AmusedAtItAll   | 08/03/04
Take a look... el1jones   | 08/02/04
So? rapson   | 08/02/04
How Much Stolen Code Does MS Have? claytonmuhler   | 08/02/04
Title Should Be... supercharlie   | 08/02/04
Sorry, yoiur wrong. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
And then again... LongShipUser   | 08/02/04
oops, LongShipUser   | 08/02/04
Who are these "know nothing" people? No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
As you yourself stated.."Looks like is NOT is" :) Laff   | 08/02/04
Looks has nothing to do with it. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
They themselves say "May" not "is" so it looks Laff   | 08/02/04
No, common sense syas they can't ALL be wrong. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
I have always found that waiting for the smoke Laff   | 08/02/04
And Nero fiddled while Rome burnt. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
Well "if" he started it...might as well enjoy it:) Laff   | 08/02/04
Observation of the day Anton Philidor   | 08/02/04
Contradiction tic swayback   | 08/02/04
Tic..I meant post that is:) Laff   | 08/02/04
Anton..I'm all for PRE it's Post I have a problem with Laff   | 08/02/04
What are you talking about.. Patrick Jones   | 08/02/04
As you yourself said... el1jones   | 08/02/04
re: Who are these "know nothing" people Thyme   | 08/02/04
How about who they are *not* AmusedAtItAll   | 08/03/04
Get ready to be SUED!!! Enterprise. Analyst   | 08/02/04
RE: Get Ready to be SUED!!!! HypnoGoddess   | 08/02/04
don't wait too long... ryusen   | 08/02/04
Not only a problem in free software uno@...   | 08/05/04
End of Linux = End of World BJW_z   | 11/18/04
Get ready to be SUED!!! Enterprise. Analyst   | 08/02/04
Same as for Loverock rlodge@...   | 08/02/04
** HE MENTIONED ME!!! ** Loverock Davidson   | 08/02/04
Message has been deleted. Enterprise. Analyst   | 08/02/04
Try this LongShipUser   | 08/02/04
I don't think Linux nor Open Source in general Laff   | 08/02/04
Nice try, wrong but still nice. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
It happens everyday and still it is not a WAR..:) Laff   | 08/02/04
Why you are wrong. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
I'm sooooo we are disagreeing again..whew! Laff   | 08/02/04
PATENT's don't lie but Distros and Vendors Enterprise. Analyst   | 08/02/04
We shall see...I'm betting no. Laff   | 08/02/04
Yeah, it feels good tro be home. ;-) No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
Disagree seosamh_z   | 08/02/04
Which is why this is being brought to a head... Laff   | 08/02/04
Feel free to disagree, it doesn't matter. No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
You MAY be right No AX hee hee hee, but that Laff   | 08/02/04
in this case... axy might be right. ryusen   | 08/02/04
Speaking of ignorant... johnnyu   | 08/02/04
And what percentage of users is that? No_Ax_to_Grind   | 08/02/04
Servers will serve without you. Anton Philidor   | 08/02/04
Re: Why you are wrong. none none   | 08/02/04
the vast majority ryusen   | 08/02/04
SOMETHING IS FISHY Protector   | 08/02/04
The insurance isn't available yet. Anton Philidor   | 08/02/04
Trademark The King's Servant   | 08/02/04
Once it is known, the lawsuits WILL start Enterprise. Analyst   | 08/02/04
Does Linux innovate??? dvm   | 08/02/04
Linux copies and steals Enterprise. Analyst   | 08/02/04
Does Linux innovate??? rkadowns   | 08/02/04