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By Mike Ricciuti
Posted on ZDNet News: May 13, 2004 7:01:00 PM

Bill Gates' dream of an end-to-end search tool for corporate networks remains just that: a dream, at least until the end of the decade.

Advanced search features that Gates has termed the "Holy Grail" of Longhorn, the next major version of Windows, won't be fully in place until 2009, Bob Muglia, the senior vice president in charge of Windows server development, told CNET News.com.

News.context

What's new:
Advanced search features that Bill Gates has termed the "Holy Grail" of Longhorn, the next major version of Windows, won't be fully in place until 2009.

Bottom line:
The shifting features and delivery schedules for Longhorn are further indications that Microsoft's goals for the operating system may have outstripped the company's ability to build and deliver the software.

More stories on this topic

The technology, called WinFS, is an add-on the Windows file system that Microsoft says will make it easier for users to find data such as documents, e-mail messages and multimedia files--no matter what their format--on local PCs and across the network.

Microsoft does plan to include WinFS in the client version of Longhorn, which is expected to ship by mid-2006. And Muglia said WinFS will be included in the server version of Longhorn, slated to debut in 2007. However, "some of the functionality of WinFS and some of the scenarios may be limited in terms of what it can do. I don't know that we will have all of the scale to the level where we would like to have it, so that you could use it for very high-volume enterprise servers," he said.

The translation: WinFS won't be fully useable on a large-scale basis to search content across corporate networks when Longhorn server ships. "So it could be that for example, you could use WinFS as a server for collaboration in workgroups. But if you want to support hundreds of users, that may wait for the update release," Muglia said.

Bob Muglia, senior VP, Microsoft

The shifting delivery schedules for Longhorn are further indication that Microsoft's goals for the operating system may have outstripped the company's ability to build and deliver the software. And other Longhorn changes are under way. While WinFS has been scaled back, another major feature, code-named Indigo, may arrive sooner than expected, most likely before Longhorn, Muglia said.

The concepts behind the WinFS project have been in development in one form or another at Microsoft for more than a decade. The search idea, which Gates has personally championed at Microsoft, was originally conceived as an addition to Windows in the early 1990s.

With WinFS, Microsoft hopes to address a conundrum as old as the computer industry itself: how to quickly find and work with a piece of information, no matter what its format, from any location. Such search technology could also be a powerful sales tool, as Microsoft looks to give both businesses and consumers a reason to upgrade to Longhorn.

But the plan has so far proven to be too ambitious. "There were a lot of dreams that people had inside of Microsoft for what Longhorn server would do. There is a natural process, whereby as a release transitions from the early dream stage into the reality stage, the functionality and the scenarios get cut back. That's part of the natural process that every release goes through," Muglia said.

Last month, Jim Allchin, the Microsoft executive in charge of all Windows development, told CNET News.com that some features of Longhorn were being cut from the first releases of the software in order to accelerate development.

Muglia said Allchin was referring to WinFS work. "There (are) areas of maturity associated with what you would expect from an enterprise-class file system that we are going to continue to work on."

Click here to Play

Bob Brown, CEO, BlackBall

Analysts said they expect other alterations in the software's feature set, since Microsoft needs to begin a testing process for Longhorn with its partners and customers. Based on the feedback from customers, Microsoft will either scale back hoped-for features or prioritize others, said Al Gillen, an analyst with research firm IDC.

"Longhorn is still so far out there, I don't think anything is locked down yet," Gillen said. "Because this is a step-by-step process, I think it's too early to proclaim what's in and what's not in Longhorn when even Microsoft doesn't know."

As the dates for future release get closer, Microsoft will be able to get a better handle on what features will make it into Longhorn.

"Three years is a long time in the development world. I would expect...more clarification on what we're going to get," said Gillen.

Microsoft's release schedule--and choice of features--is partially motivated by its Software Assurance licensing program, which includes the option to upgrade to new release as part of an annuity contract, Gillen said. Customers pay an annual fee to the program to get regular updates. "A lot of customers measure the success of (Software Assurance) on whether they get an upgrade or not," he said.

Indigo may come sooner
While some Longhorn capabilities have been put on hold, at least one major feature, a new communications system code-named Indigo, may debut ahead of Longhorn as part of a Windows Server update, Muglia said.

Indigo is expected to be released before Longhorn server debuts, according to Microsoft executives. The company has decided to make the Indigo communications software, which is meant to ease data interoperability between different systems, available on other Windows operating systems before Longhorn is generally available, Eric Rudder, senior vice president of server and tools at Microsoft, told CNET News.com.

"We have the ability to release Indigo Web services technology and have it run on Windows Server 2003, have it run on Windows XP client and just be included when you install Windows Longhorn," Rudder said. "We haven't decided on a date, but we are going to make Indigo available on other (Windows) road maps."


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The Indigo software is an overhaul of the communications "wiring" in Windows to work with Extensible Markup Language-based protocols called Web services. Indigo will include implementations of Web services protocols now under development, including reliable messaging and transactions, designed to make Web services-based applications industrial-strength.

Microsoft is still considering whether it will have an interim release of Windows that will have the Indigo communication software bundled in, Muglia said. The timing of any potential interim release will hinge on the progress of Longhorn server beta testing, which is slated to start in the first half of next year, he said. The beta period will not be long enough time to include Indigo in the "R2" update to Windows Server 2003, due in the second half of 2005.

Typically, Microsoft releases software such as Indigo, which is used only by software programmers, in downloadable development kits. When it ships as part of Windows, it will be accessible through WinFX, Longhorn's programming interface, which includes "run-time" software needed to run Windows applications, Rudder said.

An update to Web services-based communications software, called Web Services Enhancements 2.0, which will include reliable messaging and security enhancements, is slated for release "very soon," Rudder said. Bill Gates' dream of an end-to-end search tool for corporate networks remains just that: a dream, at least until the end of the decade.

Advanced search features that Gates has termed the "Holy Grail" of Longhorn, the next major version of Windows, won't be fully in place until 2009, Bob Muglia, the senior vice president in charge of Windows server development, told CNET News.com.

News.context

What's new:
Advanced search features that Bill Gates has termed the "Holy Grail" of Longhorn, the next major version of Windows, won't be fully in place until 2009.

Bottom line:
The shifting features and delivery schedules for Longhorn are further indications that Microsoft's goals for the operating system may have outstripped the company's ability to build and deliver the software.

More stories on this topic

The technology, called WinFS, is an add-on the Windows file system that Microsoft says will make it easier for users to find data such as documents, e-mail messages and multimedia files--no matter what their format--on local PCs and across the network.

Microsoft does plan to include WinFS in the client version of Longhorn, which is expected to ship by mid-2006. And Muglia said WinFS will be included in the server version of Longhorn, slated to debut in 2007. However, "some of the functionality of WinFS and some of the scenarios may be limited in terms of what it can do. I don't know that we will have all of the scale to the level where we would like to have it, so that you could use it for very high-volume enterprise servers," he said.

The translation: WinFS won't be fully useable on a large-scale basis to search content across corporate networks when Longhorn server ships. "So it could be that for example, you could use WinFS as a server for collaboration in workgroups. But if you want to support hundreds of users, that may wait for the update release," Muglia said.

Bob Muglia, senior VP, Microsoft

The shifting delivery schedules for Longhorn are further indication that Microsoft's goals for the operating system may have outstripped the company's ability to build and deliver the software. And other Longhorn changes are under way. While WinFS has been scaled back, another major feature, code-named Indigo, may arrive sooner than expected, most likely before Longhorn, Muglia said.

The concepts behind the WinFS project have been in development in one form or another at Microsoft for more than a decade. The search idea, which Gates has personally championed at Microsoft, was originally conceived as an addition to Windows in the early 1990s.

With WinFS, Microsoft hopes to address a conundrum as old as the computer industry itself: how to quickly find and work with a piece of information, no matter what its format, from any location. Such search technology could also be a powerful sales tool, as Microsoft looks to give both businesses and consumers a reason to upgrade to Longhorn.

But the plan has so far proven to be too ambitious. "There were a lot of dreams that people had inside of Microsoft for what Longhorn server would do. There is a natural process, whereby as a release transitions from the early dream stage into the reality stage, the functionality and the scenarios get cut back. That's part of the natural process that every release goes through," Muglia said.

Last month, Jim Allchin, the Microsoft executive in charge of all Windows development, told CNET News.com that some features of Longhorn were being cut from the first releases of the software in order to accelerate development.

Muglia said Allchin was referring to WinFS work. "There (are) areas of maturity associated with what you would expect from an enterprise-class file system that we are going to continue to work on."

Click here to Play

Bob Brown, CEO, BlackBall

Analysts said they expect other alterations in the software's feature set, since Microsoft needs to begin a testing process for Longhorn with its partners and customers. Based on the feedback from customers, Microsoft will either scale back hoped-for features or prioritize others, said Al Gillen, an analyst with research firm IDC.

"Longhorn is still so far out there, I don't think anything is locked down yet," Gillen said. "Because this is a step-by-step process, I think it's too early to proclaim what's in and what's not in Longhorn when even Microsoft doesn't know."

As the dates for future release get closer, Microsoft will be able to get a better handle on what features will make it into Longhorn.

"Three years is a long time in the development world. I would expect...more clarification on what we're going to get," said Gillen.

Microsoft's release schedule--and choice of features--is partially motivated by its Software Assurance licensing program, which includes the option to upgrade to new release as part of an annuity contract, Gillen said. Customers pay an annual fee to the program to get regular updates. "A lot of customers measure the success of (Software Assurance) on whether they get an upgrade or not," he said.

Indigo may come sooner
While some Longhorn capabilities have been put on hold, at least one major feature, a new communications system code-named Indigo, may debut ahead of Longhorn as part of a Windows Server update, Muglia said.

Indigo is expected to be released before Longhorn server debuts, according to Microsoft executives. The company has decided to make the Indigo communications software, which is meant to ease data interoperability between different systems, available on other Windows operating systems before Longhorn is generally available, Eric Rudder, senior vice president of server and tools at Microsoft, told CNET News.com.

"We have the ability to release Indigo Web services technology and have it run on Windows Server 2003, have it run on Windows XP client and just be included when you install Windows Longhorn," Rudder said. "We haven't decided on a date, but we are going to make Indigo available on other (Windows) road maps."


Get Up to Speed on...
Web services
Get the latest headlines and
company-specific news in our
expanded GUTS section.


The Indigo software is an overhaul of the communications "wiring" in Windows to work with Extensible Markup Language-based protocols called Web services. Indigo will include implementations of Web services protocols now under development, including reliable messaging and transactions, designed to make Web services-based applications industrial-strength.

Microsoft is still considering whether it will have an interim release of Windows that will have the Indigo communication software bundled in, Muglia said. The timing of any potential interim release will hinge on the progress of Longhorn server beta testing, which is slated to start in the first half of next year, he said. The beta period will not be long enough time to include Indigo in the "R2" update to Windows Server 2003, due in the second half of 2005.

Typically, Microsoft releases software such as Indigo, which is used only by software programmers, in downloadable development kits. When it ships as part of Windows, it will be accessible through WinFX, Longhorn's programming interface, which includes "run-time" software needed to run Windows applications, Rudder said.

An update to Web services-based communications software, called Web Services Enhancements 2.0, which will include reliable messaging and security enhancements, is slated for release "very soon," Rudder said.

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  • Most Recent of 67 Talkback(s)
I have to agree with that.
"There is a place for BOTH Linux and MS products out there"

Yes, indeed. The place for Linux is the datacenter. The place for MS products is the dumpster.

A place for everything, and everything in its place.... (Read the rest)
Posted by: Immanuel Tranz-Mischen Posted on: 12/11/04 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Chop Shop  Chad_z | 05/13/04
Adding new bugs  Mstowelboy2b | 05/13/04
Bad News, Good News  issthatso | 05/13/04
Why does this seem like a bad idea?  xshakes | 05/13/04
Yea, VAPOUR RULES! I love Microsoft! Viva la Vapour!  Spin_Masterz | 05/13/04
Yea, VAPOUR RULES------  beepster | 05/24/04
Reaching for the stars is always hard.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/13/04
Can't copy something that doesn't exist, and may never exist(NT)  Monkey_MCSE | 05/13/04
True, real innovation from open source is only a dream.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/13/04
And in that dream I saw TCP/IP, DNS, HTTP,...  Zogg | 05/13/04
And they were all prior art to open souce.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/13/04
A history lesson  Fred Fredrickson | 05/13/04
Ooops... blast  Fred Fredrickson | 05/13/04
They're all "open" protocols.  Zogg | 05/14/04
Don't bother  mabricen | 05/14/04
Re: TCP/IP, DNS, HTTP...  B.O.F.H. | 05/13/04
Myth TV  voska | 05/14/04
You IDIOTS have no clue to Open Source  jrbeaman | 05/24/04
the mess is in redmond  stephen732@... | 05/13/04
OK Puma, listen up.  Linux_Developer | 05/13/04
LD  mabricen | 05/14/04
the whole mess can be made better  bigjon | 05/20/04
Reaching for the stars is always hard Part II (the real version)  Jeff Spicoli | 05/13/04
Really? Open Source has something to compare to WinFS?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/13/04
Don: Really?  bgoss@... | 05/13/04
Re: Really? Open Source has something to compare to WinFS?  none none | 05/13/04
WinFS and other nonsense  michael-t | 05/13/04
Show me a completed version of WinFS  middle of nowhere | 05/14/04
Funny No_Ax it was only a week (or two) ago  Richard Flude | 05/13/04
Correct WTL not WFC  Richard Flude | 05/13/04
It's obvious you haven't a clue what WinFS is trying to do.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/13/04
Examples of cluelessness, please  Richard Flude | 05/13/04
cute rant...  ryusen | 05/13/04
First Technology then the stars  pj-xmesh | 05/13/04
If this were the FIRST time...  Robert Crocker | 05/13/04
RE: Reaching for the stars is always hard.  none none | 05/13/04
Reaching IS hard...  tic swayback | 05/14/04
Unfavorable Opnion  nucrash | 05/14/04
What planet did you come from?  jrbeaman | 05/24/04
Shouldn't you be in school  trojanhorse | 05/14/04
Microsoft is just hiding the true information  Sniper_z | 05/13/04
(NT) Have you been reading 'The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy' ?  Spin_Masterz | 05/13/04
I think he's been reading Mike Cox postings over and over  Monkey_MCSE | 05/13/04
(NT)And just might be the next best thing but not quite him.  Spin_Masterz | 05/13/04
Aha, a new Mike Cox  Linux_Developer | 05/13/04
going to pieces  X41 | 05/13/04
Thumbs Down, here's why:  LinuxLover74 | 05/14/04
Misconceptions  Sniper_z | 05/14/04
You show you have no clue.  jrbeaman | 05/24/04
Actually, here's why.  Sniper_z | 05/14/04
I have to agree with that.  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 12/11/04
I've known Mike Cox, Mike Cox is my friend,  Laff | 05/14/04
i wonder if anyone has ever thought about IDMS?  ryusen | 05/13/04
Just a minute...let me jot that down...  Linux_Developer | 05/13/04
unfortunatly....  JoeMama_z | 05/13/04
re: patented?  ryusen | 05/14/04
And sooner/smaller/faster/cheaper/better too.  jrbeaman | 05/24/04
Sounds more like "Extended Attributes" to me ...  GLMarx | 05/14/04
Copland  jaredbkt | 05/13/04
More reading between the lines.  Cardinal_Bill | 05/13/04
Until a few years ago  michael-t | 05/13/04
Oh, oh, the trials of VAPORWARE....  dicktaurus@... | 05/14/04
Don't throw away this opportunity  mabricen | 05/14/04
Longhorn: more hype than substance  Rick_K | 05/14/04
Forget WinFS for now, Indigo is the thing M$ will take the world  Shell_z | 05/14/04
Indigo is the latest swing at Monopoly  Dilbert-Tom | 05/17/04
Your handle should be SHILL not Shell.  jrbeaman | 05/24/04

What do you think?

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