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By John Borland
Posted on ZDNet News: Mar 29, 2005 7:29:00 PM

WASHINGTON--Supreme Court justices cast a critical eye Tuesday on entertainment industry proposals for quashing file swapping, while making clear they had little sympathy for ongoing piracy on peer-to-peer networks.

Attorneys for the major record labels and Hollywood studios argued in front of the court in one of the most closely watched copyright cases in decades, which many observers say could help set the ground rules in the entertainment and technology industries for years to come.

The justices were clear that they were concerned about the effect of their ruling on the ability of technology companies to create future products like Apple Computer's iPod. However, several appeared to seek a way of holding file-swapping companies responsible for the piracy on their networks without endangering other technology companies.

Allowing companies to issue products with no concern for copyright infringement would amount to "unlawful expropriation of property as a kind of start-up capital," said Justice Anthony Kennedy. "From an economic standpoint and legal standpoint, that sounds wrong."

The case, which pits big labels and studios against file-trading software companies Grokster and StreamCast Networks, is the culmination of five years of legal battles against the peer-to-peer networks that entertainment companies believe are undermining the viability of copyrights.

Two federal courts have already ruled in favor of the file-swapping companies, saying that the software should be compared to a photocopying machine or a VCR--that it has enough legal uses to protect the file-swapping companies.

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As influential as the case is likely to be, few believe the issue will end with the Supreme Court, whose decision is expected in June. Many observers expect the losing side to take its case to Congress after the court rules.

Throughout much of the hour-long hearing, several of the justices appeared concerned about the implications of the entertainment industry's proposal, backed by the U.S. Solicitor General's Office, that companies whose business is supported "predominantly" by copyright infringement be held liable for the piracy.

Technology companies such as Intel have argued that this standard could freeze innovation, as developers begin to fear the threats of lawsuits based on unforeseen or unauthorized uses of their products.

Justice Stephen Breyer focused heavily on the iPod music player, which he noted was probably used by many people to hold songs downloaded for free. The MP3 player, the Xerox machine, and even Gutenberg's press all had "vast numbers of infringing uses that would be foreseeable" at the time of the product's release, he said.

Harm for start-ups?
Justice Antonin Scalia asked the government's attorney, who argued in alliance with the entertainment companies, how long a start-up venture would probably have before facing lawsuits.

"What I worry about is a suit that comes right out of the box," Scalia said.

Despite this concern about establishing new copyright rules, several of the justices sought information on alternative ways to hold Grokster and StreamCast responsible for the widespread piracy.

Record labels and movie studios have long argued that Grokster and StreamCast, the parent of the Morpheus service, have deliberately built their businesses on the existence of widespread copyright infringement. They're asking the Supreme Court to rule that any company whose business is predominantly supported by piracy should be liable for that infringement.

The case has sparked strong emotions across the country, with technology companies and artists each contending that their livelihoods and freedom to innovate are at risk. Dueling protesters lined the sidewalks outside the court building before the hearing got under way. Supporters of file sharing wore black T-shirts and carried signs proclaiming "Save Betamax" and "RIAA keep your hands off my iPod."

A group of 18 singer-songwriters from Nashville, Tenn., carried guitars and signs reading "Feed a musician. Download legally."

"We're here to give a face to people being hurt by illegal downloads," said Erin Enderlin, one of the songwriters. "When we don't get paid, we can't pay our rent."

"The Supreme Court asked exactly the right question: How do we preserve innovation?"
--Fred von Lohmann, attorney, Electronic Frontier Foundation
The justices spent considerable time exploring whether the case could be sent back to the district court to decide whether the file-swapping companies had actively "induced" computer users to trade copyrighted files--a tack that could let the justices avoid making any major revisions to copyright law.

Grokster attorney Richard Taranto said the issue of past "inducement" had not yet been litigated at the lower court level, and so was not in front of the Supreme Court. Hollywood lawyer Donald Verrilli said the top court should not let the lower court rulings stand, because they would undermine any further review of whether the peer-to-peer companies were actively encouraging piracy.

As with any Supreme Court hearing, the questions cannot serve as a predictor of a final ruling. But backers of the peer-to-peer companies took heart in the justices' focus on the danger to other technology developers.

"The Supreme Court asked exactly the right question: How do we preserve innovation?" said Fred von Lohmann, an Electronic Frontier Foundation attorney who represents StreamCast Networks. "How do we protect the innovator in a garage who's inventing the next iPod?"

But entertainment executives said that the court seemed to be looking for a way to protect copyrights.

"There was clearly discomfort with the conduct of Grokster," said Mitch Bainwol, chief executive officer of the Recording Industry Association of America.

Indeed, many legal observers say the high court is likely to leave the law largely as is, and leave any substantial changes to Congress

"I think the court is going to affirm (the lower-court rulings)," said Ronald Katz, a copyright attorney with Manatt Phelps & Philips. "This doesn't fit in with the way copyright law is written. But it's not surprising that the law doesn't fit with something that didn't exist at the time the law was made."

CNET News.com's Declan McCullagh contributed to this report.

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  • Most Recent of 112 Talkback(s)
I only use GPL P2P so an against ruling wouldn't bother me
Emule, BitTorrent, Limewire. They may loose the ability to run to the courts to cover any GPL violations on their software, but they fair well without any courts' help anyway. If they can get sued i... (Read the rest)
Posted by: GreatInca Posted on: 04/18/05 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
I Hope Grokster Wins This Case  itanalyst | 03/29/05
Me too  Jeff Spicoli | 03/29/05
P2P Sharing  lradmin | 03/29/05
David Byrne comments on illegal downloads  tic swayback | 03/29/05
Great Post!  itanalyst | 03/29/05
Makes you wonder  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
Metallica..  Patrick Jones | 03/29/05
Profits and cooked books  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
Yeah but..  Jeff Spicoli | 03/29/05
They did  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
How...  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
dude, you're on crack  Jeff Spicoli | 03/29/05
was going to say the same thing  Jeff Spicoli | 03/29/05
Metallica has lightened up though  tic swayback | 03/29/05
Now...  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
No to Mention...  ZzSmirKzZ | 03/30/05
Besdies that...  toadlife | 03/29/05
RIAA always loses in objective studies...  Anton Philidor | 03/29/05
Correctamundo  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
Telemann gave Bach a much needed boost...  Anton Philidor | 03/29/05
HA HA HA  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
According to  Yagotta B. Kidding | 03/29/05
No free lunch  tic swayback | 03/29/05
Like the song says  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
Wow, Tic...  KOS-MOS | 03/29/05
Yet another study shows p2p networks lead to more cd sales  tic swayback | 03/29/05
Yes the truth needs marketing...  Anton Philidor | 03/29/05
Hard Cases Make Bad Law  Yagotta B. Kidding | 03/29/05
Should We Do The Same To Microsuck?  itanalyst | 03/29/05
Beat me to it!  Henaway | 03/29/05
Slight adjustments to the law are fine, but don't stifle all technology  tic swayback | 03/29/05
All banned  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
They just want control  tic swayback | 03/29/05
Could not have said it better  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
"best in RIAA's view for their profits"...  Anton Philidor | 03/29/05
NEVER penalize people not breaking the law  Dr_Zinj | 03/29/05
Nicely put!  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
A few facts....  cicuta | 03/29/05
Stop making sense  ibabadur1 | 03/29/05
No profit  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
Facts need qualifications  tic swayback | 03/29/05
Freedom has limits  cicuta | 03/29/05
Semantics and Human Rights  tic swayback | 03/29/05
Counter to devil's advocate  Update victim | 03/29/05
Counter  rapson | 03/29/05
Sorry, but  Update victim | 03/29/05
On subject  rapson | 03/29/05
I didn't say that  cicuta | 03/29/05
Point of RIAA lawsuit  Spoon Jabber | 03/30/05
Rebutal...  ZzSmirKzZ | 03/30/05
When .WAV file are available for download...  fredrat | 03/29/05
If the supreme court has any clue about tech..  Been_Done_Before | 03/29/05
A Great Example  Roger Ramjet | 03/29/05
Cows are brown  Update victim | 03/29/05
P2P  dahjst | 03/29/05
But change hurts  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
Can you name me any other industry....  Sir_Chancealot | 03/29/05
Nice idea, but...  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
a ruling in favor of the entertainment execs could set a dangerous  wessonjoe | 03/29/05
True...  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
What about  Update victim | 03/29/05
Artists make money  MIS Master | 03/29/05
Wow, are your numbers optimistic.  Letophoro | 03/29/05
MPAA/RIAA are Criminal Organizations Period  Mectron | 03/29/05
2 major issues here....  critique | 03/29/05
Republican government.  Anton Philidor | 03/29/05
Beatable  tic swayback | 03/29/05
Like, Duh!  Yagotta B. Kidding | 03/29/05
Glitz and Glam  tic swayback | 03/29/05
Some thoughts  rapson | 03/29/05
Follow the money  tic swayback | 03/29/05
So what else is new?  rapson | 03/29/05
Absolutely, but....  tic swayback | 03/29/05
Re: Some thoughts  none none | 03/29/05
Go for it  rapson | 03/29/05
Simple imperatives, too.  Anton Philidor | 03/29/05
Push me pull you  tic swayback | 03/29/05
good point! how is it that the author of this piece and the litigants  wessonjoe | 03/29/05
Day late and a dollar short  Nullifidian | 03/29/05
It's time the SCUMBAG Pirates and P2P Pimps get the message LOUD AND CLEAR  realitycheck101 | 03/29/05
It's Time For You To STFU And Get A Life  itanalyst | 03/29/05
he must be one of THEM  Nullifidian | 03/29/05
Someone needs a diaper change!  Nullifidian | 03/29/05
Hmmm, new-age math  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
everyone steals  praxis22 | 03/29/05
RIAA and MPAA seek anti-trust exemption  praxis22 | 03/29/05
Well, that wraps it up for the Internet, then.  the_doge | 03/29/05
Doesn't stop there...  KOS-MOS | 03/29/05
Just in the USA  tic swayback | 03/29/05
Not for long  Yagotta B. Kidding | 03/29/05
Too True  tic swayback | 03/29/05
Well then...  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
Loss of income  geona1 | 03/29/05
Also in the headlines  doh123 | 03/29/05
RIAA has another blow to it's back  TAE | 03/29/05
riaa  ben4022 | 03/29/05
Today's testimony favors Grokster  tic swayback | 03/29/05
Expressly  Anton Philidor | 03/29/05
From a radio report...  Anton Philidor | 03/30/05
Indications are Betamax will be upheld  tic swayback | 03/30/05
"building its business"  Anton Philidor | 03/30/05
License,registration and reciept for that mp3  6shots | 03/29/05
Can only think of 1 thing worse  rmerts@... | 03/29/05
our country should go back to horse riding day then.  M_c | 03/29/05
p2p sharing  cewinnie2 | 03/30/05
Those aren't violations of copyright  tic swayback | 03/30/05
RIAA Greed  tystoy45 | 03/30/05
music downloads  ilikemusic | 03/30/05
LA Times Editorial  tic swayback | 03/30/05
they act like they own the world  rijswijk | 03/31/05
P2P Case  hlbell | 04/13/05
I only use GPL P2P so an against ruling wouldn't bother me  GreatInca | 04/18/05

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